EPISODE 271: How to Powerfully Manage Stress, Anxiety and ADHD with Somatic Practitioner Melina McConnell

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Lisa
Welcome to the Full Frontal Living podcast. I'm Lisa Carpenter, master life coach to driven, ambitious humans who want more out of life without having to sacrifice themselves to achieve it. I'll share how it's possible to slow down. Take better care of yourself. Find more peace and ease. Create sustainable energy. Stop procrastination and overwhelm.

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Lisa
And fall in.

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Lisa
Love with your life, your business and your body. This podcast is for you if you're ready to learn what it takes to thrive as a high performer, do less, but achieve more. Make you and your well-being a top priority, and create your extraordinary life. I'm so glad you're here.

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Lisa
Well, hey, hey, thanks for joining me on this episode of the Full Frontal Living podcast.

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Melina
And before.

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Lisa
We dive into the episode, which is called How to Powerfully Manage Stress, anxiety and ADHD with somatic Practitioner Melina.

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Lisa
McConnell.

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Lisa
I wanted you to know that this episode is packed full of so much more. I cannot say enough about Melina's work with me over the past year, and honestly, she has been a part of my transformation over the past decade, even when I wasn't working with her. And I'm going to share more about that in the episode. But I really wanted to do this episode justice by letting you know just how much of an expert Melina is in her field, and she's going to talk about this in the actual episode as well.

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Lisa
But, you know, Melina believes that trauma steals our sense of safety, curiosity, competence and sense of belonging, leaving you with symptoms of nervous system dysregulation and other often painful body manifestations. So if you have chronic pain happening in your body, you're going to want to listen to this episode. She's also a firm believer, that we are neatly designed to heal, which I also believe that we are actually put on this planet to heal and transform.

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Lisa
We come here with lessons to learn and we need to work through them. But we've become so radically disconnected from our bodies. And this is why I love Melina, because she really takes a mind body approach that is so essential in healing the effects of the human experience. You cannot think your way through transformation. So although having conversations, uprooting beliefs, this has been such a tremendous amount of my work and my own personal journey over, you know, more than a decade now, I cannot not work on the physical element of healing because so much is stored in our tissues.

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Lisa
So Melina is a somatic trauma therapist. She's I fs informed counselor, which is internal family systems. If you are unfamiliar with it, feel free to Google. And she supports her clients through the intersection between neuroscience, trauma and attachment from what she calls.

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Lisa
Psycho.

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Lisa
Neuro biological approach, she helps her clients address the underlying causes of these symptoms through somatic practices and somatic IFS work encouraging the movement of stuck survival energies, renegotiating boundaries, and repairing attunement ruptures from early life, moving clients towards wholeness and health. Melina has advanced training in therapeutic touch, which includes this as a regular part of her practice, and I have the privilege of working with her, in person and having her hands physically on my body.

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Lisa
And I can attest to the amount of energy that I have had stored in my body and and what it's changing for me as it release, which I'll share more with you as you dive into the episode. So she maintains a private practice in Vancouver, BC, which is where I live. So unfortunately, unless you were in the Lower Mainland, you won't have the honor of working with her in person.

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Lisa
However, she is expanding her work online and we will put all of the information about how you can connect with Melina in the show notes, so make sure you check that out. She assist individuals in the areas of trauma, developmental trauma, shock, trauma, see PTSD and PTSD, human development and attachment, anxiety, depression, chronic pain, and the physical and emotional effects of chronic trauma, stress, and addictions.

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Lisa
So without further ado, enjoy this episode. It is a.

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Melina

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Lisa
Information packed episode. It's one of my longer episodes, but I promise you it's going to be worth every moment you listen. And again, don't forget to check out the show notes so you can connect with Melina if her message speaks to you, and begin your own journey into exploring somatic therapies and somatic healing to free yourself of things like ADHD, chronic pain, stress, and anxiety.

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Lisa
Oh hey. Hey, thanks for tuning in to another episode of the Full Frontal Living podcast, and I have a really special guest on today. Her name is Melina.

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Lisa
McConnell.

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Lisa
Said that. Right, Greg.

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Melina
And, I always just call you Bill.

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Lisa
Melina when I have to call people by their last names. I'm always like, who?

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Melina
What? Who's that? Is that.

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Lisa
Anyways, as usual, this is going to be just a really open dialog. But I'm excited to introduce Melina to you, because Melina first came into my life.

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Melina
For.

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Lisa
Probably about 12 years ago now, when my hubby at the time went into addiction recovery, and I realized that I needed to take responsibility for my own role in the relationship. So it wasn't about fixing him. Although at first I thought it was about fixing him. And I had.

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Melina
You know.

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Lisa
What was my problem?

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Melina
But.

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Lisa
Melina was one of my first therapists and counselors, and she really had a profound impact in my life. She said some of the things to me that needed to be said, even though I would often leave those therapy sessions being like, what just happened here? They were hard hitting, but they needed to be hard hitting because they needed to disrupt what was going on in me.

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Lisa
Now, you know, a lot of things unfolded for me in 2023, and I am a big believer in seeking out the people who have been in your.

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Melina
Corner through.

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Lisa
Your journey. So I always go back to coaches and therapists because there's something to be said for me, at least around the safety that is found in those relationships you've already cultivated. So when things unfolded in 2023, Melina was one of the first people that I reached out to. Which is why I'm excited to introduce you to her today, because she's made a transition transition from being an addictions counselor therapist into doing somatic work.

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Lisa
And somatic work has really been profound in my own healing over the past year. And humbling, probably some of the most humbling work that I've ever done. And I've done a lot of work on myself. So, Melina, before I continue to to gush about you, I would love for you to properly introduce yourself to to my community, because I know I'm doing all your credentials, which are extensive, a disservice.

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Lisa
So introduce yourself and then I would love for you to talk about.

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Melina
What.

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Lisa
Caused you to make that transition from being in the addiction therapy counseling area into somatic work, and why that was so important to you.

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Melina
Thank you so much, Lisa, and thanks for having me here today as well. So I have been in the realm of therapy counseling for just over 21 years now. And as you know, I started in addictions and trauma and over the years about, you know, 12, 13 years in, I was realizing different themes that kept coming up with folks that I was working with.

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Melina
A lot of the patterns would change for periods of time, and then people would go back to.

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Lisa
Compulsive.

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Melina
Behaviors of some kind, never really understanding at that time, the underpinning that was actually happening. So we were treating the addictions, but not really treating what or supporting people to understand better why they kept choosing or not choosing, the coping strategies that they, that they were. So I was starting to put it out to my community and asking if anyone knew any kind of work that could support the trauma that I was seeing over and over and over.

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Melina
So I kind of put my feelers out there, and I found out at that time about somatic experiencing. So I had I think I mentioned this to you before. I had gone to a weekend workshop intro session and about an hour, and I was like, that's the thing. That's exactly what I've been looking for. Not really understanding even what I was looking for at the time.

00;09;06;17 - 00;09;28;15
Melina
And so I went home and I said to my husband, yeah, I know it's another three year program, but I'm going to I'm going to do it. And I literally signed up. I think that Monday, I was just very, very, intrigued and interested to learn more about the body, learn more about, what was happening, with traumatic stress.

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Melina
And so I did, and I explored that three year program. And then upon graduating, one of the faculty said, okay, congratulations, you've graduated kindergarten. And I was like, what on earth is he talking about? But it was true. It really opened up the doors, to more and more sort of unchartered territory, having been that, I had started off as a talk therapist and then moving into the realm of somatic work, there was a huge learning curve for me to understand, physiology, to understand what was happening in the body.

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Melina
And so I dove in and have been continuously doing trainings and advanced work over the last decade.

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Lisa
It's amazing because I would, you know, having known you for so many years, I think there's a lot of similarities between us and a lot of differences to write, but I would kind of coin you more of like the analytical left brain thinker, like you're a very critical thinker, got a lot of education behind you, but somatic work actually forces you to be in that right brain, mind, body connection and not always letting the brain override or the thinking part.

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Lisa
Because a lot of talk therapy is about kind of think our way through it. And I'm not coping on talk therapy or coaching or anything like that because I think it's it's also powerful questions create powerful shifts, but it's recognizing that there's so much more wisdom held in the body.

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Melina
That.

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Lisa
We can't think our way through.

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Melina
Which, yeah.

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Lisa
You know, that's what becomes so humbling. So I would love for you, for the listeners to define what how you classify trauma, because I know for many of the the men and women that I work with, one of the questions that I ask on my intake form and I find this fascinating is, did you have a safe and stable environment growing up to which almost all of them answer yes.

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Lisa
And then I asked them if there was any type of addiction in their family, whether it was drinking, drugs, shopping, social media, eating disorders, and almost all of them say yes. And you and I both know that the two cannot. They don't cohabitate without a certain amount of trauma. Yet we so normalize these environments. So I would love for you to kind of define trauma in a way that people can understand, and how that impacts why we get into addictions.

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Lisa
But even knowing addictions go way beyond like drinking and drugs, it can be people pleasing and overly being, overly controlling, etc. that was a massive question.

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Melina
So yeah, no that's great. Yeah. No problem. So, there we go.

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Melina
Trauma can be defined as something that happens to us or something that doesn't happen to us. That essentially overwhelms the nervous system and has a threatening component to it. So unlike being overwhelmed, trauma has the component of threatening our well-being, either physically or emotionally. So not all things that are overwhelming or traumatic. But there's a difference also between shock trauma and early childhood and developmental trauma.

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Melina
So shot that maybe I'll start with the first one. Developmental trauma generally happens in our early stages of life or prior to inception. Even so.

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Melina
In utero we can carry traumatic stress from our ancestors, from our mom, through what's called epigenetics. So I won't go to too much into that whole sciency thing around it. But we can also, have experiences after birds and depending on the environment. So it's like nurture nature, the nurturing and the environment have a big factor in how our systems metabolize stress.

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Melina
So a growing little one is more susceptible to things that are overwhelming or traumatic than somebody who hasn't had, a lot of adversity, you know, from the get go and then having something overwhelming or traumatic happening later in life. So let's say, baby's born and needs to have medical procedures. That child being taken away from their primary caregivers disrupts the bonding and attachment that they would have otherwise.

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Melina
That creates distress for a little one. So when we experience something traumatic when we're little or in utero, it literally affects us at the fluid system and cellular system in the body. That then puts a like a marker into the system that will potentially influence other experiences that come after word.

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Lisa
So profound.

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Melina
Keep going. Yeah it's okay. So developmental trauma is usually, like I was saying early days until three four years old. Then we move into early trauma early childhood trauma. So again early childhood trauma could be up until our brains are fully developed, 25 years old. So then different experiences will affect the developing brain and nervous system during our developmental years.

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Melina
And then if we have shock trauma on top of that kind of platform, it's going to be much more disruptive than, like I was saying, somebody who has, you know, a fairly secure start to life, not a lot of disruption, not a lot of stress on the system, their ability to have resiliency through something that is shocking to the nervous system will be easier, so to speak, to recover from.

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Lisa
Yeah. So I was a three time winner. I think I probably had all three.

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Melina
So I.

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Lisa
You know we have to make.

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Melina
Yes.

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Lisa
It's trauma can be a very heavy thing and I can I can go deep as you know. And and I think we need to you know what I'm getting from this conversation and what I want other people to recognize is that.

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Melina
Pretty.

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Lisa
Much everybody has.

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Melina
Some level.

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Lisa
Of trauma in their.

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Melina
Life.

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Lisa
And I think I also just want to say for the parents, like, if you're if your child was taken from me when it's a baby, that created trauma for you too, and you also can't hang on to the fact that your child probably experienced trauma, like everybody is going to have their own journey. Part of that is.

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Melina
Also working with our mom parts around guilt. So even though something could be a medical procedure, where it's life saving will still potentially have an impact on correct on the parent and potentially on the child. Having this kind of understanding and awareness can be helpful, for people to be able to move through their own emotions and feeling toward the helplessness of, you know, having a child being taken away for something, even, like I said, even if it's life saving.

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Melina

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Lisa
So much of the somatic work is.

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Melina
Is.

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Lisa
At least it has been for me, is is learning an even deeper level of self-compassion.

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Melina
And grace.

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Lisa
And self-love. And one of the things that you said to me and you said here again, that was so powerful for me was Lisa, trauma isn't always something that happens to you because for the most part, I had a normal childhood, right? I've got great parents. They did the best they could. This isn't about throw my parents under the bus and blame them, because I truly believe in personal responsibility and everything happening the way that is meant to happen for our journeys.

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Lisa
That just brings me peace in my life. But when you said to me, trauma isn't always something that happens to you. It can be something that you don't that doesn't happen to you. I was like, whoa, that just absolutely took my breath away because I never thought of trauma in that way.

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Melina
Yeah. Often it's when we aren't nurtured, when we aren't seen for who we are, when we aren't able to express authentically is extremely distressing. For again a developing growing brain and nervous system. And so part of what happens is we shut that part of ourselves off. And you know, we can move right into nervous system stuff.

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Melina
Yeah, we can be great if we aren't able to be heard and understood and taken care of and held and nurtured and touched in a healthy way. Touch is one of the first senses that we learn as little ones. So when we're met and there's eye to eye contact and there's, you know, singing and humming and all of those really lovely things is really supportive of coagulation.

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Melina
When there's a nervous system at, you know, a regulated nervous system helping to support the baby's nervous system to regulate, even if it's not perfect. I'm a parent, too. It doesn't have to be 100% of the time. So I'm certainly not here to be judging anyone's parents. But we know a lot more now than we did. You know, when I was growing up, even around, attachment attachment theory.

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Melina
Well, attachment theory has been around for a long time, but thanks to the internet, we have a lot more accessible knowledge and data available. And when we get that kind of, healthy other when there is the right brain to right brain connection happening, then that is part of our nonverbal communication up until language, that's how we're interpreting our experience of what's coming back to us.

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Melina
So if what's coming back, we're met with blank stares, not smiling faces, or there's nobody there and we're, you know, left for longer periods of time than what is actually healthy, the child will be in distress. And as a little one, we aren't able to fight or flee. So the only other survival energy available is to freeze. And we don't interpret mom and dad being busy and unavailable, in any, way about them.

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Melina
We internalize that and say, okay, well, I must be unlovable. Then there must be something wrong with me, or people would be coming to help me. Little ones don't have the access yet to the prefrontal cortex to rationalize why somebody isn't attending to us sooner. So that lack of attunement from when we're little is what you're speaking about is the not getting.

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Melina
And that is and can be part of developmental trauma, the lack of attunement.

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Lisa
It's so interesting because I talk a lot about beliefs and stories and, and so many of us are walking around unconscious to the fact that, you know, a five year old child is making decisions for us on the daily because.

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Melina
We.

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Lisa
We brought in those stories and beliefs when we didn't have that filter to go, well, of course my mom loves me. She's just busy with stuff. And it creates that story of I'm not good enough or I'm not lovable. And those stories are still playing out in our 40s and 50s. And what I find with my generation. And we talked about this a little bit as I've been, you know, stirring on all the things in my past, because that's what I do.

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Lisa
Gen X, man, we were the we were the kids that were thrown outside come home when the street lights come on. Our parents would quite often leave us, you know, not because they didn't love us. And and as I was thinking about the age of my parents, which I've never really put this together, my parents were babies having babies.

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Lisa
And so when I think.

00;21;56;15 - 00;21;56;25
Melina
About.

00;21;57;00 - 00;22;07;24
Lisa
Co regulating, right, like being able to hold that safe space for my kids and I had my kids in my late 20s, I was not emotionally developed enough.

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Melina
To.

00;22;08;07 - 00;22;10;26
Lisa
Co regulate with them, let alone.

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Melina
In.

00;22;11;07 - 00;22;25;12
Lisa
Like a baby having a baby. And this this whole idea of co regulation was also so really new for me, not even recognizing that the people that we surround ourselves with or who are either supporting our nervous system.

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Melina
Or.

00;22;26;24 - 00;22;31;24
Lisa
Throwing us into more emotional chaos that we might even not be totally conscious of.

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Melina
Yeah. So the good news is, is the data says 30% of the time. So 30% of the time we need to get it more right than not in order to help our children to feel more secure and to feel that there is somebody there. So again, it's feeling right. So it's the ability for them to actually internalize that somebody is there.

00;22;57;26 - 00;23;22;21
Melina
So our felt sense is different than our cognitive understanding and knowing. So we it's it's not about the thinking about it only that's where you know, coming back to your comment about when we're little and then those patterns carry us through into adulthood because we don't. And a lot of us back then didn't understand. We didn't have access to this information.

00;23;22;23 - 00;23;49;05
Melina
And so now knowing it's like, oh, okay, well, that makes sense that, you know, partnering up with somebody who might feed into like an unhealthy attachment pattern. If we grew up in an environment where there was more of an avoidant tendency, parents that, weren't around, not because they didn't love us, but they maybe didn't realize how important it was to get tucked in at night.

00;23;49;05 - 00;24;19;15
Melina
And, you know, saying to when we were little and things like that. Again, it wasn't malicious, but just not understanding that emotionally neglecting children has a long term impact. So later then, we may gravitate toward a partner who emulates mom or dad. That familiarity in terms of how we're being treated and our own maladaptive behaviors, then feeds into our potential romantic other relationships.

00;24;19;17 - 00;24;46;27
Melina
So we then look at our partners like family or spouses, where they're not right. Partners are essentially. And I mentioned to you this a while ago, partners and romantic relationships are essentially strangers that we're constantly getting to know, but we treat people as though they are family that they should know. But we don't have that same biological connection.

00;24;46;29 - 00;25;12;24
Melina
And so we have to, you know, learn about ourselves, our own patterns, how our nervous system reacts to stress, and then hopefully supporting our partners to do the same for them. And, for them to get to know themself as a way to also support the coming together so that we are working in a two system approach, not just independently in a relationship.

00;25;12;24 - 00;25;43;06
Melina
We want to eventually work toward interdependency. So you mentioned earlier about codependency. So that's kind of like I need you to do this for me so I can be okay. So I see that is a defensive accommodation right. We're trying to accommodate our internal defenses because we cannot essentially regulate ourselves. But if we didn't get that from the beginning the inability to self soothe becomes that much greater.

00;25;43;07 - 00;26;08;10
Melina
So then we need these external other things as a way to help support us to feel regulated. So that's like a full regulation. Right. So we're in sort of full window of tolerance. If I'm stressed out and I'm on my own and I don't have anybody, I'm going to of course look for things to help me to feel safe, to feel comfortable, to feel cared for.

00;26;08;12 - 00;26;31;29
Melina
And sometimes that's where we get into more of the addiction piece is that we look for things until, you know, we'll look for one thing and it doesn't work, we'll look for another thing, and then all of a sudden, oh, here's alcohol or pot or some drugs or a relationship. And it's like, bang, now I got I have the thing that helps me to feel safe, but it's a faux safety.

00;26;31;29 - 00;26;52;29
Melina
It's not from myself to myself comforting and taking care of my internal world so that sometimes will look like what's called external locus of control. That's often what I see, and very, high functioning people who are.

00;26;52;29 - 00;26;53;24
Lisa
Like very.

00;26;53;24 - 00;27;23;26
Melina
Work driven or very academic. Somewhere along the the line, there was an overt focus, potentially, of something that helped the person to be motivated, to feel connected, to have less fear of scarcity, whatever it might be. It's like, that's the thing I'm going to do. I'm going to be super academic and get the job, and then I can leave home, and then I can find this partner and, you know, then I'll feel safe and they'll better be who I am.

00;27;24;00 - 00;27;41;00
Lisa
Exactly. It's that, Yeah. Looking for other people, places and things to make you feel better. Putting that responsibility outside of yourself instead of inside of ourselves. And, you know, in terms of high achievement and all those things that I see in the the women that I work.

00;27;41;00 - 00;27;41;24
Melina
With so.

00;27;41;24 - 00;27;59;13
Lisa
Often, they've been rewarded for those maladaptive behaviors. And in all fairness, you know, this this mind body connection is still kind of the way I see it is in it's it's still in its infancy. When I think back to, you know, I'm only I was going to say 41 and I'm like, wow, you just shaved like ten years off.

00;27;59;13 - 00;28;02;08
Melina
Literally 51.

00;28;02;10 - 00;28;22;29
Lisa
You know, back when I was growing up, there was no talk about emotional fluency. It was just like, suck it up, buttercup. Like, we didn't we didn't talk about feelings. And most of the women in my generation, we learned to disregard our feelings, and we learned to disregard that mind body connection because our feelings were invalidated anyways.

00;28;23;02 - 00;28;55;06
Lisa
So what's the point in having them? But if you're going to tell me, like, I'm awesome and I'm a good girl because I've ticked these boxes and I'm showing up the way you think I should show up, then of course we're going to start to chase that. And, you know, I came to work with you because this had shown up in my relationship again in a way that I was completely blind to until, you know, things went sideways, but that I believe that we are all going to have these moments in our lives where we have an opportunity, where where we're invited into this deeper work.

00;28;55;08 - 00;29;08;28
Lisa
You don't have to accept the invitation. You probably lead a challenging life if you don't. But everybody gets to choose. Anybody who's listening to this is listening because they want to do this work. But I wanted to talk a little bit more about.

00;29;09;00 - 00;29;10;29
Melina
This,

00;29;11;01 - 00;29;20;27
Lisa
Functional freeze. And I actually really appreciated you saying that we only have to get it right about 30% of the time, because I feel like that is a bar that pretty much everybody listening can reach for.

00;29;21;00 - 00;29;22;08
Melina
Yeah, yeah. Like I think.

00;29;22;14 - 00;29;31;27
Lisa
30% is pretty good. I can do that. But functional freeze. The reason I want to talk about this, and I wanted to share this experience with my listeners because it was.

00;29;31;27 - 00;29;33;13
Melina
So.

00;29;33;16 - 00;29;52;18
Lisa
I remember being on your table. So when I work with Melina, she's like hands on. And I have the privilege of being able to work with you locally. And you had me do this exercise and, you know, I'm lying there in my head trying to figure out what you're doing, because that's often what I'm trying to do is like, what?

00;29;52;22 - 00;30;06;04
Lisa
What are we actually doing here? Because it is such subtle work. And you had me put my arms in the air and then drop them by my side. You have you put my legs in the air and drop me by the, by my side. And then you ask me how I was feeling. And I said, I'm like, tingly all over.

00;30;06;04 - 00;30;08;22
Lisa
So you're like, cool. You didn't say cool. That's my.

00;30;08;22 - 00;30;09;17
Melina
Word.

00;30;09;19 - 00;30;28;27
Lisa
Let's get up. And then you said, we're going to do jumping jacks now. And I was like, I'm thinking in my head, this is amazing. She's teaching me how to move this energy out of my body. And then you told me to stop, and I, I just remember I could not stop the tears in the emotions from coming through me.

00;30;29;00 - 00;30;52;24
Lisa
And then what came up behind it so powerfully that it just about took me out was the shame of being. And I consider myself pretty, like, uncomfortably uncomfortable with vulnerability. But that was like next level, because here I am, bawling my eyes out in front of you. And I remember I couldn't even make eye contact with you because the amount of shame that was there and I was present to it wasn't oblivious to what was going on.

00;30;53;00 - 00;31;03;21
Lisa
And at the same time, I couldn't override it. I couldn't force the tears down. And I remember you saying to me, when you're ready, I need you to look at me.

00;31;03;23 - 00;31;04;02
Melina
And.

00;31;04;09 - 00;31;25;25
Lisa
Like holding that really firm space around you need to look at me, because it was about that whole regulation and teaching me that I could be with this energy and be with this emotion at a heightened level. And it was part of, if I understand correctly, trying to break that functional freeze on me. Am I totally off base or am I in line?

00;31;25;25 - 00;31;26;09
Lisa
Yes.

00;31;26;09 - 00;31;47;08
Melina
And there's a little bit more. Okay. Yeah. So yes. So the moving the energy through the body was as a way to interrupt you going into further freeze. So to live consciously we need to have access to our bodies.

00;31;47;10 - 00;32;09;29
Melina
So this was an opportunity to say okay so I'm seeing that you're in a freeze response in the moment. Let's get the energy moving when the shame comes up as a way to normalize the shame response is to kind of to say it, it's like, okay, and I've mentioned this before, it's kind of like your shames in the room.

00;32;09;29 - 00;32;42;21
Melina
Are you noticing like it's yeah. So there's some shame here. We're going to just acknowledge that it's happening and you're not alone. The when you feel ready, if it's okay to try to make eye contact with me, is about recognizing that you're not alone, to take in another nervous system and for somebody else to witness you in those feelings and in that state was a different experience.

00;32;42;23 - 00;32;56;27
Melina
So we're having a corrective experience of feeling this deep shame. And can you send me here with you even just a little bit, as much as you can take in? Yeah.

00;32;56;29 - 00;32;59;04
Lisa
Yeah, it was a really powerful moment of.

00;32;59;05 - 00;33;00;03
Melina
Of.

00;33;00;06 - 00;33;22;25
Lisa
Choosing to not abandon myself, even though part of me wanted to, like, flee the building. Worse yet, allowing myself to be supported in an even deeper way than I ever had been before. And you know, what's been so challenging for me with this work is somebody who, you know, I've done a lot of work on myself, which, you know, I'm highly committed to my own growth, and I have unraveled.

00;33;22;29 - 00;33;54;13
Lisa
Like, I can look back now and really see how much of, this freeze I've been in, even though it had softened and unraveled when this kind of, you know, shock trauma happened, how quickly my body went back into that state. But to have so much more of awareness, while at the same time being completely clueless to the fact that my body was in this, this holding pattern, that was really hard for me because being so kinesthetic, I always want to feel like I know what's going on with my body.

00;33;54;16 - 00;33;58;18
Lisa
And it was so humbling to feel like, wow, I have no idea what's going on with my body.

00;33;58;21 - 00;34;32;07
Melina
Yeah. So if something happens that keeps us in unconscious, or if we're not taught to be embodied, then we generally don't know to go there. So what I'm saying is that if something happens to us that connecting to our body is too overwhelming, we will cut off our sensory. We will cut off the ability to go inside.

00;34;32;10 - 00;35;08;25
Melina
Or if we're not taught about feelings and the connection between feelings and our sensations, etc., then we don't know that that's a thing we can do. So traumatic stress or trauma will also steal, essentially, like the sense of our, self. It'll steal the sense of safety, of curiosity, of our internal competency, our creativity. And so then we become in our heads, like you were saying earlier, about left granny.

00;35;08;28 - 00;35;31;24
Melina
So that's something that I've known about myself. I was actually very right brain, but I didn't really know how to do that as it wasn't as easily accessible as my left brain. Until then, I learned and I was like, oh my gosh, okay, so I, I have known this about myself. I have always had very strong intuition, but I didn't know that it was okay to access that.

00;35;31;24 - 00;36;01;26
Melina
I thought that like something was wrong. If I were to do that, that, you know, my feelings would have been too much, that I was too sensitive, etc. now, knowing that isn't necessarily the case, that there's beauty and being sensitive and beauty and acknowledging those parts of myself, and also about boundaries, that even though I can have empathy and compassion, I can't, you know, feel everybody's distress because it would be too much for my system.

00;36;01;26 - 00;36;25;23
Melina
And that would be extremely traumatic to take on, you know, more than what what I can in a healthy way to be helpful. So, what ends up happening when we are disconnected, the nervous system behind the scenes is responding to our experiences, whether we have conscious awareness to it or not. Okay.

00;36;25;25 - 00;36;27;23
Lisa
So what does that what does that look like?

00;36;27;25 - 00;36;28;02
Melina
Yeah.

00;36;28;07 - 00;36;31;17
Lisa
Okay. Everybody through what's actually going on.

00;36;31;19 - 00;36;32;28
Melina

00;36;33;01 - 00;36;51;07
Lisa
In our nervous system and, and then maybe we can go into some signs and symptoms that they might be able to identify with that will show them. Oh, I'm not I'm in my head, I'm not in my body. And I'm running kind of this like nervous system trauma response.

00;36;51;07 - 00;36;58;19
Melina
I think that would be helpful. Okay. So.

00;36;58;21 - 00;37;10;12
Melina
Knowing so it it can start with having a sense of what are the things that we're doing habitually that may not always be helpful. So like like.

00;37;10;12 - 00;37;11;09
Lisa
Overthinking.

00;37;11;12 - 00;37;47;19
Melina
Overthinking something. Let's say we're not sleeping well. Let's say that we feel anxious or stressed or overworked or hurried. Right? These would be signs that our nervous system would likely be in a high arousal state. So in sympathetic activation where the gas pedal is on, we're hurried. We can't get things done. We feel very overwhelmed. It's affecting maybe our parenting.

00;37;47;19 - 00;37;55;06
Melina
We feel short tempered. We feel agitated. Those types of switch, feelings in it.

00;37;55;06 - 00;37;58;27
Lisa
Also affects our cognitive ability. And it's not right. Like we can't.

00;37;58;27 - 00;38;26;15
Melina
Yeah, we're not thinking clearly. We might have what I call squiggly brain. Often people think they have ADHD or ADHD, and sometimes it's that we are not regulated. So if we feel very dysregulated, it's really hard to have clear thinking thoughts. If we're in very high overwhelm, as in survival mode survival energy, we actually don't have access to our prefrontal cortex.

00;38;26;18 - 00;38;59;05
Melina
So in a very high sympathetic state, for example, we might be agitated, we might be fleeing from things, relationships, work, wanting to change jobs, feeling very emotionally dysregulated, angry. I think I mentioned angry, frustrated. We might feel very emotional. Sad, not really understanding why we can't seem to make clear decisions. Changing our mind. Making plans, canceling inconsistency.

00;38;59;05 - 00;39;24;06
Melina
Those types of things can say to us, okay, we're in this high sympathetic. I think of it like the gas pedal on a kind of low and mock ten, which a lot of people think they thrive in. And we do for periods of time, but not a lifetime. So that would be a sympathetic activation, meaning gas pedal is on the other part of the nervous system.

00;39;24;06 - 00;39;49;28
Melina
There's sort of three components is our ventral part of the nervous system. So we have the sympathetic and we have the parasympathetic. Parasympathetic has two branches. There's the ventral part of the nervous system which is social, engaging resting, digesting.

00;39;50;00 - 00;40;20;22
Melina
Connecting like we are. We are making eye contact. We both feel pretty calm, maybe some excited energy, but nothing that we can't handle. And then we have what's called the dorsal state dorsal. There's sort of two states. Also, the dorsal part of the vagus nerve branches down the brain. The vagus nerve runs down the brainstem and it innervates at the neck and throat and comes down our back being dorsal, and lands in the gut.

00;40;20;24 - 00;40;49;03
Melina
So in a high state of dorsal high tone, dorsal is shut down, shut down and freeze. Dissociation. Low tone is essentially the feelings that we get right before we fall asleep. It's like a conservation state. So there's two in conserving. When we're sleeping, things slow down, the heart rate slows down, and we're resting, sleeping. We're not socially engaging.

00;40;49;05 - 00;41;19;12
Melina
Right. In order to feel, I should have mentioned this about the ventral when we're in ventrally dominating dominated state of parasympathetic, we need to feel safe. It's a really important component. And so in high tone dorsal shut down freeze collapse would be like the end point. Don't see that too often or gentle I mean like true collapse would be someone's essentially in the hospital.

00;41;19;14 - 00;41;52;06
Melina
So it's a conservation state. It's too much. The impact on the heart, the blood pressure is too much. If we're coming up in this sympathetically dominant state, at some point we will. You know, if we don't slow down, we're going to have a heart attack. So if the ventral part of the vagus nerve is not toned enough to come in and go, it's okay, we're gonna get through this and everything's going to be okay.

00;41;52;13 - 00;42;16;23
Melina
If we don't have this kind of way of of, like, activation deactivation. We're going to be up here, here, here, here, here. At some point. It's going to be too much. The dorsal part is like a break. It comes on and hammers it down and says that's too much. We can't cope okay. And we will, you know, shut everything down.

00;42;16;23 - 00;42;33;24
Melina
We might go into, like I was saying, more of a dissociation and it might be that we kind of lose a sense of time. We kind of like that sense of like deer caught in the headlights. And again, this is a bit of a spectrum for some people. They can dissociate for a moment. It's like, oh yeah, I forgot where I was.

00;42;33;29 - 00;43;05;21
Melina
For other people it could be gaps of time that we lose. So there's also physiologically changes that happen in the nervous system. So we brace, we constrict, we hold our breath. Our digestion can be especially if this is long term will be deeply impacted. So the dorsal brake is on. It's essentially like holding on to our digestion. Given that that nerve is there.

00;43;05;24 - 00;43;31;08
Melina
So then it'll will affect yeah, the organs in the viscera essentially. So we know that different types of stress are going to affect the whole body. So then, you know, stress and our hormones are connected. And so the endocrine system can be deeply impacted by stress particularly when it's ongoing. So this is the difference also between shock and developmental trauma.

00;43;31;11 - 00;43;53;01
Melina
You know a shock trauma that you know, somebody goes through like a car accident or something and come out of it essentially healthy. There will be a recovery period. And it's like, okay, I come back to my sort of homeostasis. I come back to baseline. But if we've had a lot of adversity before a car accident, we're not coming back to that baseline.

00;43;53;01 - 00;44;08;12
Melina
It's like we're trying to find it now. So the effects on the body, the brain and the body can be much, more impactful when we've had, you know, a plethora of ongoing adversity.

00;44;08;14 - 00;44;41;08
Lisa
I can I can definitely like just as you're talking, listening, I can see that this this pattern for me, because there have been many times in my life where I've had these shock traumas piled on top of the ongoing parts of, you know, other little things. So even though I've done so much work on myself and self-care and thought I was so much more regulated, I never actually had a I don't like to use this word because, you know, I have to be careful that I don't get into my own broken story.

00;44;41;08 - 00;44;44;21
Lisa
Right? But I never really had a baseline of.

00;44;44;24 - 00;44;45;11
Melina
This is.

00;44;45;11 - 00;45;12;19
Lisa
Like normal nervous system response. It's always been heightened. So I think when things happened last year, it was such a it was such a hit to my nervous system. And, and I find this so fascinating. Right. Because you and I have talked about this, how the rate of ADHD seems to be, like, skyrocketing and everybody's talking about ADHD, everybody's talking about somatic work seems to be the trend right now.

00;45;12;21 - 00;45;30;07
Lisa
But just in listening to you, it makes me wonder, like, do we have an outbreak of ADHD or do we have a bunch of people that are really like, there's more and more stress piling on in our worlds, and our bodies are just saying, like, we've hit max level.

00;45;30;10 - 00;45;30;16
Melina
Now.

00;45;30;16 - 00;45;31;28
Lisa
We're medicating people.

00;45;32;01 - 00;45;32;29
Melina
You know, which is a.

00;45;32;29 - 00;45;52;10
Lisa
Whole other conversation. But so now we've got some idea of how it presents in the body. We've got some idea of like what this looks like in terms of sympathetic parasympathetic. And if I'm understanding you correctly, our body gets into this habitual pattern. Right? Because if we run something enough times, our body's like.

00;45;52;11 - 00;45;53;12
Melina
Yeah, this is this is.

00;45;53;12 - 00;46;00;08
Lisa
Normal, this is our new normal. And I know for, for me and a lot of my clients that.

00;46;00;11 - 00;46;01;02
Melina

00;46;01;04 - 00;46;11;23
Lisa
You know, they want more peace in their life, but as they slow down, that actually creates this, like, I call it chaos in their body because it's so it's dysregulated for them to be at peace.

00;46;11;25 - 00;46;12;12
Melina
Okay.

00;46;12;15 - 00;46;30;05
Lisa
So how do we move someone who doesn't have the opportunity to necessarily work with a somatic practitioner? Right. You have your hands on my body. How do we move someone from getting out of these habitual loops where they're caught in their parasympathetic?

00;46;30;07 - 00;46;30;29
Melina
How do we move.

00;46;30;29 - 00;46;38;24
Lisa
Them into or support them in getting to a new baseline where they can actually be connected with their body and start to create some.

00;46;38;26 - 00;46;39;14
Melina
Peace.

00;46;39;14 - 00;46;53;00
Lisa
And understand what a regulated nervous system looks like. And beyond that, what is possible for people when they do nervous system work, like what will change in their life.

00;46;53;02 - 00;47;25;17
Melina
So maybe I'll touch first on the, the first sort of question. So where I would suggest people generally start is having an understanding of where on the nervous system map one is. So if I were to say, you know, those three parts, the sympathetic, the parasympathetic and those two branches, it's like where here would you find yourself generally?

00;47;25;20 - 00;47;45;18
Melina
And so if someone says to me, oh, you know, it's really hard for me to, to slow down, right? I'm very athletic. I like high intensity sports. I'm training all the time. My job is super stressful. I love it, you know, my kids are in 14 activities and my husband and I are tag teaming all the time.

00;47;45;24 - 00;48;11;01
Melina
It's like, okay, great. So where where are the, areas in which are challenging? So is it that I don't have time to slow down, or am I not making the time to slow down because it's really uncomfortable if I'm just to sit and have like, quiet time? So that's where I would start looking at. At what what area are you trying to change?

00;48;11;01 - 00;48;15;13
Lisa
Right. Does this this also requires that the people be honest.

00;48;15;15 - 00;48;16;22
Melina
For what.

00;48;16;22 - 00;48;37;04
Lisa
They're actually feeling like if they're not sleeping, if they have anxiety, if they find that something overthinking perfectionism, like not just taking those as the status quo or the way I've, I've heard it talked about, which I thought was fascinating, was the curse of the a type over achiever. I'm like, it ain't a curse. Like you actually can change that.

00;48;37;06 - 00;48;38;26
Melina
But just intellectual.

00;48;38;28 - 00;48;47;29
Lisa
Yeah. Like people have just considered, well, this is normal. This is how we work. And it becomes the identity of the high achiever, not even seeing it as being problematic.

00;48;48;02 - 00;49;18;18
Melina
Right. So yes. So I would say if someone is really new and they don't have a lot of, self-awareness, then it may be okay. Are you running through injuries? Are you like what is actually happening? So yes, exactly. Being honest, I do see a lot of people with sort of unexplained chronic pain and then realizing, oh, okay, well, it's because I've been in this functioning for years and didn't really realize that it's not a good idea, you know, to run with broken toes.

00;49;18;18 - 00;49;22;07
Melina
And I'm just exaggerating. But for people do that, but they do. Right? And then.

00;49;22;07 - 00;49;25;29
Lisa
They give themselves like a pat on the back, because look how I was the first.

00;49;25;29 - 00;49;35;05
Melina
Person after breaking my leg to get back to the cycling team or whatever. It's like, okay, well, yeah. So it's looking at what or what exactly is happening here.

00;49;35;07 - 00;49;55;00
Lisa
I just laughing because it's just, it's so my people and it was me, right. Like it was like the more adversity that I could work through that really became my identity. Like I kind of got off on look at all the things I can survive. Not even recognizing that was the story, keeping me trapped and stuck in this kind of survival freeze pattern.

00;49;55;00 - 00;49;56;02
Lisa
So exactly.

00;49;56;07 - 00;50;22;26
Melina
So let's say someone knows, okay, I've had kind of like the upbringing that I've described, and they have gut issues and they've seen people for all sorts of different testing, and there's this unexplainable thing that's happening, and they feel anxious sometimes and aren't sure why. Okay. So we could go in that same it's like, okay, so that may affect someone's sleep, it might affect menstruation, it might affect a lot of these different things.

00;50;22;28 - 00;50;59;16
Melina
So then it's like okay, so if I am to have an understanding of myself and I, I know I'm on that freezing, constricting, bracing, checking out kind of aspect of the nervous system. Then I would say, okay, so maybe some things that one could do at home would be to understand the different parts of oneself. So if I'm still having to, you know, work 100 hours a week, do I have to do that or am I doing that as a way to avoid the quietness because it's too overwhelming and I don't know how to do that.

00;50;59;19 - 00;51;19;12
Melina
So then it's like, okay, so then maybe some gentle movement. So let's say it's the athlete. Let's take one day and do some gentle stretching so we can still move the body. We're not sitting like a lot of times I think we and I've talked about this before, people are told, would you just need to meditate? Well, when.

00;51;19;12 - 00;51;21;15
Lisa
Somebody care for somebody not active.

00;51;21;19 - 00;51;46;04
Melina
Someone's in. Yeah. Active or in their high, threshold of sympathetic activation or shut down. It's extremely difficult to go inside. So we want to do it in a way that we're really tight reading, meaning step by step, little bite sized chunks. Maybe it's qigong, maybe it's yoga and stretching. Maybe it's going outside and having a lot and not listening to a podcast or music.

00;51;46;04 - 00;52;14;00
Melina
Even though this is, you know, we want them to listen to this one, of course, but just for that time, just to what is it like to not be distracted with something else? And if it's overwhelming, okay, so it's okay. We don't need to judge it, but maybe we can get curious. So looking at what are those defensive accommodations, what are you doing as a way to help you to cope, to help you to feel better, to feel more connected?

00;52;14;03 - 00;52;34;03
Melina
Or are you doing it as a way to disconnect? So wherever someone is kind of on their map, I, I like mapping it out. What am I learning? What am I learning about myself and what are my emotions about that? Is there a part of me that feels scared? Is there a part of me that's happy that I'm doing this?

00;52;34;03 - 00;52;57;29
Melina
Is there a part that's really protective of like hell no, I'm not doing anything like this. I don't want to learn about myself. This is really scary. And then getting curious about those feelings, those emotions. As we're exploring in the self, what are the sensations that are coming up? What emotions do I feel as I'm doing this? Do I have any images?

00;52;57;29 - 00;53;21;12
Melina
Are there memories coming back to me? What are my behaviors that I'm trying to change? And then of course, we have the meaning making right then our brain wants to get really involved and make meaning out of it. Yeah, but if we can kind of like I think I might have said to you, we're going to take the brain, we're going to just put it on the shelf over here, and let's just be with your body, even for five minutes, and see how that feels.

00;53;21;14 - 00;53;37;19
Melina
So this would be one way. It's really about the self-exploration. Yeah. What area am I trying to change? What is it I want to learn about myself? And then how can I slowly start to have access to my internal world?

00;53;37;21 - 00;53;56;00
Lisa
So everything you said there, because for me, you know, as soon as I go up into my head and thinking I've already lost the game, even though I know this, it's such a protective mechanism for me to go into thinking that I have to, you know, usher myself gently with a lot of compassion and grace back into my body.

00;53;56;00 - 00;54;15;15
Lisa
And what you said there about curiosity. I talk to my clients a lot about that because curiosity and judgment, they don't. They can't hang out together like you can't be judgmental and curious at the same time. It's really, really hard. So if I'm in my thinking head, I'm going to be in my judging head, which means there is no curiosity and compassion.

00;54;15;15 - 00;54;41;00
Lisa
And this work, whether it's, you know, with a therapist, with a coach, with a somatic practitioner, you can't make progress if you're not willing to be curious about what's going on for you. It's not work that somebody else can just do for you. There's no like, magic. There's no magic pill around it. And it's such an invitation into knowing yourself better and understanding.

00;54;41;00 - 00;54;49;26
Lisa
Yeah, knowing and understanding the parts of you that you've never explored before. And you know, when we first started talking about parts, I'm like, oh my God.

00;54;49;28 - 00;54;51;01
Melina
I feel like I'm like.

00;54;51;01 - 00;55;25;08
Lisa
Multiple personality disorder because we all have so many parts. And when you can, you know, you even talking to me about, well, let's be curious about all these parts being in the room together. And I'm like, are you kidding me? This one part is going to kill the other parts. This might not be a good idea, Melina, but it's been so fascinating to just be able to step outside of myself and witness these different parts and let them each have a voice without judging the part of me that wants to be vengeful, or judging the part of me that is angry, or judging the part of me that just wants to curl up into a

00;55;25;08 - 00;55;26;26
Lisa
ball and do nothing.

00;55;26;28 - 00;55;28;02
Melina
Like.

00;55;28;04 - 00;55;54;08
Lisa
They all are offering me something. And if I don't stay with them and present with them, my body isn't going to come out of this nervous system response because it's like I'm fighting myself. I'm fighting my body all the time. So I love how you say, like just the smallest things can make such a big impact, like walking without a podcast on to create space and just being present to.

00;55;54;08 - 00;56;14;01
Lisa
How uncomfortable does that make you feel? You know, if I can get my people to sit for like five minutes, can we do anything for five minutes as opposed to can you sit for in silence for 20? That's torture. But five minutes is good. Or can we start with a guided meditation or even I think I was talking to you about bilateral.

00;56;14;01 - 00;56;20;07
Lisa
I really like bilateral beats because the sound bounces from ear to ear. Does my brain something to follow?

00;56;20;09 - 00;56;20;22
Melina
Right?

00;56;20;22 - 00;56;37;27
Lisa
Right. But I can still be in that calm and present state. But even with all of this, you know, part of what is so humbling is that it's not something that can be fixed just quickly. Right? These habitual patterns have been with me for so long.

00;56;37;29 - 00;56;38;13
Melina
So I.

00;56;38;13 - 00;56;41;16
Lisa
Can't expect, you know, let's say.

00;56;41;19 - 00;56;42;05
Melina
40.

00;56;42;05 - 00;57;03;01
Lisa
Eight years of ongoing big t little t traumas to disappear in 12 months of work. So I'm really curious from your perspective, can people get back to that baseline after running these patterns for so long? Like is that even a possibility? Am I reaching for like.

00;57;03;03 - 00;57;03;06
Melina
Not.

00;57;03;09 - 00;57;12;19
Lisa
Reaching for like a bar I'm never going to reach? What is this look like? Like so how will things be different on the other side?

00;57;12;21 - 00;57;17;24
Melina
So firstly, there's nothing to fix, correct?

00;57;17;27 - 00;57;22;02
Lisa
I like how you always remind me of that.

00;57;22;05 - 00;57;34;03
Lisa
It's like the knowing it, but the part of me that loves to be the learner and loves to understand and dissect things so badly wants to know. And that was, you know, that wanting to be.

00;57;34;03 - 00;57;35;19
Melina
Fixed.

00;57;35;21 - 00;57;44;20
Lisa
And recognizing that I couldn't fix it was a big turning point in my initial therapy way back in the day. Because if you remember, like I would.

00;57;44;22 - 00;57;46;02
Melina
I read the book.

00;57;46;05 - 00;58;03;22
Lisa
Read the things, and then I remember coming in and you being like, are you done reading the books, Lisa? Like, are you? Because I came in so crushed after reading, Codependent No More by Melody Beattie, I was like, oh my God, I'm broken. I'm all these things. Here's the playbook. How do we read the manual?

00;58;03;22 - 00;58;04;18
Melina
Yeah. And we.

00;58;04;18 - 00;58;07;20
Lisa
Were like, now you can start to do the.

00;58;07;20 - 00;58;09;23
Melina
Work because.

00;58;09;25 - 00;58;15;04
Lisa
You this is here, but you're not broken. We just need to, unravel these patterns. And it was.

00;58;15;06 - 00;58;15;11
Melina
Was.

00;58;15;11 - 00;58;16;22
Lisa
So hard because I was like.

00;58;16;24 - 00;58;22;20
Melina
Oh, you have a PDF on how I know. It's like, you know how to do it, and I'll do it and tick it off and so on.

00;58;22;20 - 00;58;26;25
Lisa
Absolutely. And even still, being on your bed, oftentimes I'm like.

00;58;26;28 - 00;58;27;08
Melina
Yeah.

00;58;27;13 - 00;58;41;02
Lisa
So anything changing what's happening here? Are we there there yet? And the irony is in order for the work to work, I have to be willing to not be attached to the work working. Right.

00;58;41;05 - 00;59;04;05
Melina
Yeah. So I can come back, maybe, and speak a little bit more to the idea around what people might feel, what might change. How can we actually get to where we want to go? So yes, yes and yes. And so what I find generally is as we move through, it's like the ladder of the nervous system, right?

00;59;04;05 - 00;59;29;24
Melina
As we kind of drop down maybe from here. And there's nothing wrong with being up here sometimes the, the concern of being here or here is the physical implications on the body. We are just not meant to be. If we were a vehicle right, with the gas pedal on all the time, or the brake on all the time, or the gas and brake always going to.

00;59;29;24 - 00;59;33;21
Lisa
Say the gas, like I think that's me, gas and brake at the same time.

00;59;33;24 - 01;00;02;04
Melina
And revving the heck out of our system right over time. Our body's like a vehicle, if not maintained, will start to not work anymore. Things will start to break down. And that's, you know, the unfortunate thing that I do see is that people living a lifetime of this kind of stress and digestive issues, endocrine system issues, joint issues, autoimmune diseases, that sort of thing.

01;00;02;04 - 01;00;13;14
Melina
So yes, things can change. So I don't really, it's not the words that I would choose about going back to some other baseline because.

01;00;13;16 - 01;00;18;02
Lisa
There's nothing to go back to. I mean, how we what what are we moving towards.

01;00;18;02 - 01;00;44;13
Melina
So what we're moving towards essentially is homeostasis, where all things in the body or I would say coherency. So there's a homeostasis in terms of our physical health that when things are working optimally we have homeostasis, which would be like a baseline where our hearts are not having to, you know, pump excess blood because we are up here and it's, you know, we're going to have a heart attack.

01;00;44;16 - 01;01;14;11
Melina
So we have homeostasis, we have coherency. When our emotions are regulated, our nervous system is regulated. Our well-being feels like we have this natural ability to be in flow. No more than not. And again, it's not that we're always going to be regulated. It doesn't mean we're here. It means the resiliency to be able to bounce back from something that happens.

01;01;14;13 - 01;01;33;06
Melina
How long does it take us and how long are we in? Dysregulation helps build resiliency. So then it's like, okay, so if I can check in with myself and say, okay, you know what, I've had a really busy week. I think on the weekend I'm just going to take some time for myself. I'm going to go for a walk.

01;01;33;06 - 01;02;02;29
Melina
I'm going to do a little internal self-exploration. We have internal healing intelligence. It's just a lot of us don't know that, and we don't know that we can depend on that. But we have to be, again, self-aware to go, oh, okay. Well, I'm feeling really rushed right now. What's happening inside of me? I'm choosing to double book myself on some day.

01;02;03;02 - 01;02;25;26
Melina
I am I doing that? Just being self-aware helps us to change the behavior pattern. So then again, if we drop down from here to here, it's like, oh, okay, I feel a bit more at ease. I can feel a bit more relaxed in my body when I'm with my friends. I'm not thinking about, you know, what I need to do tomorrow, that I can just be here in the moment and enjoy.

01;02;25;29 - 01;02;59;14
Melina
I'm not rushing my kids everywhere. I'm taking time to check in with how they're doing. I'm spending less time on devices. I'm going to bed at the time that I say I'm going to go to bed. Not when I wake up in the morning kicking myself that, you know, I didn't go to bed earlier. These types of things help us to feel more again regulated, to feel a little bit more like we're supporting ourselves to make better decisions, which will then translate into our own internal feeling states, our felt sense.

01;02;59;17 - 01;03;23;27
Melina
Yeah. With the freeze response, it's like, okay, I'm in this functioning freeze, and I can tell that I'm bracing and holding. How come when I go to bed at night, what am I thinking about? Can I ask the thinking parts to soften back, give me access to my body so I can feel myself? Maybe let go of my muscles that are holding, slow my breath down?

01;03;23;29 - 01;03;27;16
Melina
Those types of things can be really helpful.

01;03;27;18 - 01;03;33;05
Lisa
Yeah. It's just it's so fascinating because I would have, you know, before I think it goes.

01;03;33;05 - 01;03;34;13
Melina
Back before.

01;03;34;13 - 01;03;37;08
Lisa
2023 with all the Covid stuff as well.

01;03;37;11 - 01;03;37;22
Melina

01;03;37;24 - 01;03;50;22
Lisa
I really would have considered myself pretty well regulated because I had done so much work around it. And I think it's just been so interesting to watch how quickly that got ramped up again because of various things going on in the world. And I think that.

01;03;50;24 - 01;03;51;04
Melina
This is.

01;03;51;04 - 01;04;07;02
Lisa
So much of what we're seeing with people, with just things that are happening in the world. They don't even need something like a shock trauma. Like I had it just, you know, I don't know, maybe we're going to war now. Like there's just crazy stuff always going on. And, you know, one of the things that I talk to my people.

01;04;07;02 - 01;04;08;00
Melina
About.

01;04;08;02 - 01;04;20;17
Lisa
Is, I think one of the ways that I've been able to navigate this, and I don't want to say better than most, because I don't think that's fair to say. However, because of how I sleep.

01;04;20;19 - 01;04;20;26
Melina
And.

01;04;20;26 - 01;04;45;13
Lisa
Eat and hydrate and move my body, those have given me a pretty solid foundation to stand on to do this work. And I see so many people with massive health problems like you were saying, right, because disease is actually disease in the body. And it just makes me so grateful for how I have cared for myself because it like I said, it is provided a foundation for this work.

01;04;45;13 - 01;04;54;18
Lisa
Whereas I think a lot of people and I talk about this a lot, are chasing the wrong problems or trying to solve the wrong problems or trying to solve their gut issues.

01;04;54;20 - 01;04;55;08
Melina
Yeah.

01;04;55;10 - 01;05;18;04
Lisa
You know, all these different health protocols are there. You know, there are chronic headaches with all these type of protocols. And we are living in a society and in a world that creates this disconnect, like we're literally every single day doing things and living in the world, that creates that disconnect from our heads and our bodies and values.

01;05;18;04 - 01;05;40;14
Lisa
So much people being up in their heads and all the doing versus the connection in the body. And and that's why I'm here to do this work, because I think it's so important that we find our way back to ourselves. And that's also why I think that I was given this gift, sent through gritted teeth. I was given this gift of like, deeper healing, because I think that this is more of the message that needs to come through for people to hear.

01;05;40;14 - 01;06;04;26
Lisa
And, you know, there's so much talk online, and I know you're not online about somatic work without people really understanding what that what that means and the impact that it can have on them when they look beyond their symptoms. So using the symptoms as an invitation into the work, but then recognizing that the problem that they're needing to look at is very different than the problem that they think they have.

01;06;04;28 - 01;06;08;28
Melina
Right? Right. Yeah, yeah. And yeah.

01;06;09;01 - 01;06;25;07
Lisa
Is there anything like we've been talking I could talk to you forever because I've got I've always got so many questions for you. Is there anything that we haven't touched on that you think would be really, really important for my listeners to know? And I know we've talked about a lot.

01;06;25;10 - 01;06;57;26
Melina
I was just going to touch on there in terms of, yes, like the world events and other things that are going on that can really easily distract us from ourselves. And, sometimes, you know, fear will do that and would just I would just suggest that, although we want to know and keep up with current affairs, that it's also really important to come home to ourselves to carve out the time to spend really, getting to know what's happening individually.

01;06;58;01 - 01;07;20;11
Melina
Because if we each can become more and more aware of how we are, how we are in the world, how our nervous system is reacting, and we start healing individually, that's going to also help heal collectively. So I think that just in light of, you know, all the things that are happening in the world right now, that collective healing is possible.

01;07;20;13 - 01;07;45;26
Melina
I see it, I see it all the time with clients that, you know, I've been working with for a period of time, and suddenly they'll come in and they're sleeping better, or they've reunited with somebody that they couldn't stand to be around before, or they're just, able to change jobs or move or actually get into a relationship where they haven't in the past because they have been in a free state and have lived with a lot of fear.

01;07;46;03 - 01;08;11;24
Melina
And so fear really does often, cut us off from having the ability to feel confident, to feel like we can change. And sometimes we can get stuck in believing that. Right? Having these beliefs that we're not going to change. So why bother? So I would just suggest, as we get to know these various like fear is another part.

01;08;11;24 - 01;08;33;12
Melina
So getting to know what we're afraid of and being able to support the fear within us versus judging it or avoiding it, can be one step closer to finding the kind of wellbeing that we want. Individually or even like in community or culturally, collectively. Yeah, yeah.

01;08;33;15 - 01;08;45;02
Lisa
Everything really is energy, right? Even with co regulation, that's us reading each other's energy and our energy impacts other people's energy. And for anybody who's like that's not true. Well it's actually science.

01;08;45;04 - 01;08;45;10
Melina
Yeah.

01;08;45;11 - 01;09;10;07
Lisa
And everybody's had an experience of being around someone that they're just like, you know, the hair stands up on your arms and you need to move away from them or, you know, like we're all picking up on that. And it is so true around fear creates such a disconnect and such a toxic environment. So, you know, one of my mentors see, it says be in this world that reminds us that we're not of this world, right?

01;09;10;07 - 01;09;35;01
Lisa
That we are spiritual, energetic beings. And I think it's so important to know, like, you know, I think that we have a certain level of responsibility to know what's going on in the world. I don't totally agree with, like, just completely unplugging from everything and living, you know, I can't go that far. But I also think that there is a line that needs to be drawn around how much are you allowing?

01;09;35;04 - 01;10;00;28
Lisa
How many weeds are you allowing to grow in your garden because of what you're, what you're seeing, what you're listening to, whether it's social media, the news, the radio, and really being responsible for that, knowing that it is impacting you on an energetic level. So I even say, like when you scroll through social media, you may not remember what you saw, but your body remembers how it felt in witnessing or hearing whatever it is.

01;10;00;28 - 01;10;11;25
Lisa
And those little things may not seem like big profound. But over time, if more people would stop watching the news, I think the world would just be a happier place.

01;10;11;27 - 01;10;35;08
Melina
Yeah, it can really influence how we are, how we respond, how we are more agitated. It creates or can create a sense of helplessness. So again, it's yeah, we're not meant to be inundated at the volume with the volume and the speed in which we now get information. Yeah.

01;10;35;09 - 01;10;56;15
Lisa
And that helplessness can lead into that, being in that kind of victim mentality, which then activates the nervous system. Right. Because you have to go into that protection mode. So it's just like vicious, this really vicious cycle. So we could talk forever because, you know, I love you and I love you work. And I'm so grateful that you came into my life.

01;10;56;15 - 01;11;16;25
Lisa
And again, I mean, you know, I open that door. Hey, Melina. You miss me? I'd love to see you. But I'm. I'm really so grateful for everything you've taught me about myself and just the things that you've opened me up to. And now that I get to introduce you to, you know, you've worked with my clients, now I'm bringing you on the podcast so that more people can really understand this work.

01;11;16;25 - 01;11;28;21
Lisa
So having said that, I know you're a local in Vancouver, so, you know, 500 people can't be down your door to work with you. But is there any place that I can send people to connect more with your work or.

01;11;28;23 - 01;11;29;18
Melina

01;11;29;20 - 01;11;45;26
Lisa
Resources that you want to send them to? We're happy to put them in the show notes for you. I know you're not on social media. That's totally fine. But, you know, is there any place that we can send people to find out more about this or learn more about perhaps finding a somatic practitioner in their area?

01;11;45;28 - 01;11;55;24
Melina
Yep. So my website is one place that folks can find me. I'm happy to send information to you, Lisa, that you can put in your show notes and.

01;11;56;00 - 01;11;59;03
Lisa
See what's the actual what's the IRL.

01;11;59;06 - 01;12;05;02
Melina
Yeah Melina mcconnell.com and that's MC. Oh and.

01;12;05;02 - 01;12;14;26
Lisa
PLL right. Deuces to anything okay so Melina oh and and l.com.

01;12;14;29 - 01;12;23;18
Melina
You got it. Yeah okay. So we'll send them great resources. Well I'm happy to share those with you.

01;12;23;20 - 01;12;27;10
Lisa
But what's one great book that they could start with.

01;12;27;13 - 01;12;32;22
Melina
Bonnie keeps the score. Oh that's a great book. That's where I would suggest people start.

01;12;32;25 - 01;12;37;10
Lisa
By to keep score. Do you remember the author's name? I can't think of his name off the top of my,

01;12;37;12 - 01;12;40;11
Melina
Basil Vander Cole. Yeah, yeah.

01;12;40;11 - 01;12;41;22
Lisa
An eye opening book.

01;12;41;24 - 01;12;46;09
Melina
Yes. Yeah, that's the one that I would suggest. There's lots. So I'm happy to share more.

01;12;46;11 - 01;12;47;23
Lisa
Yeah, that would be amazing to you and.

01;12;47;23 - 01;12;48;24
Melina
Yeah.

01;12;48;26 - 01;12;52;22
Lisa
Perfect. Well, thank you so much for all your time, Melina.

01;12;52;24 - 01;12;53;12
Melina
Gosh, thank.

01;12;53;12 - 01;13;18;05
Lisa
You. Really just been such, a blessing in my life. You know, there's no accidents. And it's just, again, as I was reflecting before I first started this interview, like where we started from versus where we are now, how different I was then. Like, you've known a version of me that nobody really knows, and I've known a version of you that is so radically different from where you are now.

01;13;18;05 - 01;13;27;29
Lisa
And we are both such a testament to what happens when you do your work on yourself, whatever path you take, coach therapists, somatic work, like.

01;13;28;02 - 01;13;28;17
Melina
Yeah.

01;13;28;20 - 01;13;41;04
Lisa
You can't go wrong if you decide that you want to be committed to your growth, your peace, your well-being, I mean, you just you cannot make a mistake with it with this type of work. So I just, I.

01;13;41;06 - 01;13;51;12
Melina
You know, ugly dressing, right, can lead us to profound, life changing experiences. Yeah, yeah, those moments have to happen. Thank you.

01;13;51;18 - 01;14;10;04
Lisa
All right, I'll wrap this up. Otherwise, I'll keep gushing about you. Oh, are you all. You head over to the show notes. Make sure you check out Melina's site. Go get the body. Keep score. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to email me. I'll put that in the show notes as well, and I can reach out to Melina and ask questions.

01;14;10;04 - 01;14;13;21
Lisa
Or I'm sure you can email her directly through her website, because I know that's where I.

01;14;13;21 - 01;14;14;10
Melina
First.

01;14;14;12 - 01;14;17;02
Lisa
Found you. Again, it was like an email. Hey, Melina.

01;14;17;05 - 01;14;17;12
Melina
Yeah.

01;14;17;13 - 01;14;37;01
Lisa
Anyway, so thank you so much for coming on and I will see you in person soon. So much love to you and thank you for listening. If you love this episode and you believe it will help somebody else, which is pretty much anybody would benefit from listening from this episode, please make sure you share it. And tag me on social media so that I can give you some love back and say thank you.

01;14;37;01 - 01;14;39;00
Lisa
So thanks so much, Melina.

01;14;39;02 - 01;14;39;22
Melina
Thank you.