What does it actually cost you to hide yourself in the rooms where it matters most?
Not the obvious things. Not the opportunities you can point to or the relationships you can name. The subtler cost. The version of yourself that never quite got to show up at grad school, in the boardroom, at the table where it counted. The years of spending your best mental energy managing how you were perceived instead of actually being there. That’s the cost most high-capacity leaders don’t talk about, and it’s exactly what Julie Averill is willing to put on the table.
Who is Julie Averill?
Julie Averill is a technology executive, leadership advisor, and the author of Chief Impact Officer, a book about why psychological safety, influence, and culture matter more than authority and control. She served as global CIO of lululemon, where she helped scale the company from two to over ten billion dollars, and has led technology at some of the most recognized brands in the world. She works with companies navigating the intersection of human leadership and the AI era through her advisory practice, Goldthread. Her book, Chief Impact Officer, launches June 16th, 2025.
Julie Averill’s Story: The Cost of Leading from Behind Walls
For most of her corporate career, Julie Averill was exactly who you’d want leading a transformation. Strategic, capable, and able to move companies through massive change. But underneath the results and the credibility and the seat at the table, she was operating with significant parts of herself carefully out of view. She was hiding, not from the work, but from being fully known in the rooms where she was doing it.
For years, Julie minimized her relationship with her wife Cindy, keeping her presence out of professional contexts, navigating a life that required her to show up as a partial version of herself. At the time, it felt like the only reasonable way to operate. What she didn’t fully see was the cumulative cost. The relationships she didn’t build at grad school because she wasn’t all the way in. The leadership impact she left on the table because the energy she should have been directing toward her team was going toward managing perception instead. The people on her team who might have felt permission to be more fully themselves, if she had been.
The shift didn’t come from a framework or a leadership course. A mentor asked her one direct question: how was her team supposed to follow her if they didn’t know who she was? It landed differently than she expected. She thought she’d been hiding the hiding. She hadn’t been.
What followed was a reckoning, a coach with difficult questions, and a slow process of learning what it actually meant to lead from presence rather than proof. Then came the trip to Ethiopia to bring home her son Airmas, who was six years old and had no reason to trust these strangers who’d arrived to take him across the world. Every instinct Julie had, her drive to fix, to connect, to prove she was the right person for this, failed her completely. It was a stranger singing the Bingo song on a street, and two Ethiopian businessmen in a coffee shop who finally reached him. All Julie had to do was get out of the way. She stood there, heart breaking a little, and let it happen.
That moment didn’t just change how she understood adoption. It changed how she understood control, connection, and what leadership actually requires when the stakes are real.
What we cover in this episode:
- How success can arrive exactly as planned and still not feel the way you expected. Julie reflects on reaching what many would call a pinnacle at lululemon, and the quiet recognition, not of ingratitude, but of misalignment: that she was there for comfort and a paycheck, not because the work ahead was the work she needed to do.
- The invisible tax of hiding yourself in professional environments. When you spend your processing power managing how you’re being perceived rather than contributing what you actually think, you leave your own potential on the table. Julie names this with uncommon precision, including what it cost her at grad school, in her marriage, and in her leadership.
- Why identity fusion with leadership is such a specific trap for high-capacity people. The skills that make someone great at leading others, being needed, being capable, being the one who holds things together, are often the exact skills they refuse to apply to themselves. Julie and Lisa go deep on what self-leadership actually looks like when you’re wired to lead everyone else first.
- The mentor question that changed everything. One direct observation from someone who knew her well: nobody on her team knew who she really was. What that question revealed about the walls she’d built, and what it took to start coming out from behind them.
- The coffee shop in Ethiopia and what it taught her about control. This is the story at the heart of this episode. Julie arrived in Addis Ababa wanting to be the right mother for her six-year-old son. She couldn’t speak his language, couldn’t make him trust her, couldn’t will the connection into being. Two strangers at a coffee shop did what she couldn’t. What she learned in that moment about surrendering control without abandoning responsibility is something no leadership book had prepared her for.
- What over-functioning actually costs women in leadership. The pattern of doing more, carrying more, proving more, is socially rewarded right up until the point it isn’t. Julie and Lisa talk honestly about how this wiring shows up, what it feels like when you’re inside it, and why naming it as self-inflicted doesn’t make it easier to stop.
- The qualities that will become more valuable, not less, as AI reshapes work. Judgment. Passion. Curiosity. The ability to connect with human beings. Julie has spent significant time working at the intersection of organizational change and AI adoption, and her perspective on where the real competitive advantage lies is worth paying attention to.
- What psychological safety actually requires from the leader. You can’t create it externally if you don’t have it internally. Julie is direct about this. If you’re not operating from a place of honesty yourself, your team knows, and no amount of stated values or culture investment closes that gap.
- What Julie has become unavailable for, and how that clarity has shaped her first year as an entrepreneur. After years of corporate life, she’s learning, in real time, that freedom and over-commitment are not mutually exclusive. The work of saying no to herself has turned out to be harder than saying no to anyone else.
This episode is for you if:
- You’ve achieved something significant and you’re starting to notice the gap between how it looks from the outside and how it actually feels from the inside.
- You’ve spent years being excellent in rooms where you weren’t fully yourself, and you’re only now starting to count what that cost you.
- You pride yourself on your leadership but would privately admit that you don’t extend that same standard of care to yourself.
- You’ve reached a level of success that required you to be the capable one, the strong one, the one who held it together, and you’re tired of that being the whole story.
- You know what it feels like to grip something so tightly in an effort to control the outcome that the very thing you wanted slipped through anyway.
- You’re moving into a new chapter, whether that’s entrepreneurship, a new leadership role, or simply a different relationship with how you succeed, and you sense that what got you here isn’t quite what will serve you next.
- You’ve wondered what it would feel like to actually lead from who you are rather than from who you need to prove yourself to be.
What leading from presence actually requires
There’s a version of leadership that looks like strength from the outside and costs everything on the inside. It’s the version built on walls, on carefully managed perception, on channeling every ounce of capability toward the work while keeping the person doing the work just out of view. It works. For a long time, for most people, it works.
What Julie’s story makes clear is that the cost of that way of operating doesn’t always announce itself. It accumulates quietly, in the relationships that stayed surface-level, in the rooms you were only partially present for, in the version of yourself that kept getting left at the door. And at some point the gap between what you’re projecting and what you’re actually carrying becomes its own kind of exhaustion.
The shift Julie describes isn’t about becoming more vulnerable or softer or less ambitious. It’s about understanding that real leadership presence, the kind that actually moves people, actually creates safety, actually earns trust, requires you to be a person first. Not a role. Not a result. A person.
That’s the work this conversation points toward. And it’s the same question underneath everything I work on with my clients: not how do you achieve more, but what are the patterns you’re running to maintain what you’ve already built, and what are those patterns costing you?
Ready to understand what’s running underneath your success?
If this conversation landed for you, a useful place to start is understanding which pattern is most active in how you lead and achieve. The Success Paradox Quiz takes about five minutes and identifies the specific archetype shaping how you succeed, what it’s costing you, and what becomes possible when you start leading from a more intentional place. Take the quiz at lisacarpenter.ca/quiz.
And if you haven’t already, grab Julie’s book. Chief Impact Officer is out June 16th and available wherever books are sold, including Amazon. Chief Impact Officer https://goldthreadllc.com/book
Connect with Julie Averill: goldthreadllc.com
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/julie_averill_/
Connect with Lisa Instagram: @lisacarpenterinc
Take the Success Paradox Quiz: lisacarpenter.ca/quiz
The question isn’t whether you’ve achieved success. It’s whether your success feels the way you thought it would.
00:00:01:02 - 00:00:33:00
Lisa
The very patterns that create success can quietly undermine your ability to experience it. Welcome to congruent. I'm Lisa Carpenter because at some point, success becomes about more than what you've built. It becomes about whether your life feels the way you thought it would. Each week I sit down with founders, executives, entrepreneurs, thought leaders and high capacity professionals to explore success, leadership, fulfillment and the experiences that shape them.
00:00:33:02 - 00:00:59:02
Lisa
Together, we examine how our definitions of success involve why accomplishment doesn't always create the life we expected. And what happens when we stop assuming our ways of thinking, leading and achieving are simply part of who we are. Because the question isn't whether you've achieved success, it's whether your success feels the way you thought it would.
00:00:59:05 - 00:01:22:21
Lisa
My guest today is Julie Averil. And I have to say, when I first heard Julie speak at a conference that I was at in Whistler. What struck me wasn't her resume, but her resume is incredibly impressive because she led technology at some of the most beloved brands in the world, including as global CEO of Lululemon, where she helped scale the company from two to over $10 billion.
00:01:22:23 - 00:01:49:28
Lisa
What struck me about Julie was her humanity underneath all of it. The way she talked about the parts of her journey that usually don't make it into a leadership keynote, which is exactly why I knew I had to have her on the podcast. So in today's episode, we talk about what it costs to hide yourself in the rooms where it matters the most, how identity gets fuzed with the role you play, and what it actually takes to stop leading from a place of proving and start leading from a place of presence.
00:01:50:01 - 00:02:13:21
Lisa
There's also an amazing story about a coffee shop in Ethiopia that I think is going to stay with you, because I know it's stayed with me. Now, Julie is also a brand new author of a new book called Chief Impact Officer, where she talks about psychological safety, influence and and how culture matters more than authority and control. And it's going to be out on June 16th, so make sure you grab a copy.
00:02:13:23 - 00:02:23:17
Lisa
If you've built something real and you're starting to wonder what it's quietly been costing you to maintain it. I think this conversation is going to land for you. So let's dive in.
00:02:23:19 - 00:02:50:28
Lisa
Julie. One of the things that I've been thinking about leading into this conversation is how often we celebrate people for what they build, lead, scale, and accomplish, but rarely talk about who they have to become along the way or let go of, which is an even bigger topic. And when I first heard you speak at W North, what really struck me wasn't just your leadership experience or the scale of transformation that you've led across companies.
00:02:51:01 - 00:03:14:20
Lisa
It was your humanity underneath it all, especially the way you spoke about motherhood, adoption, uncertainty, and learning to let go of control and moments where love required something deeper than certainty. So in my work, I spend a lot of time thinking about the difference between high achievement and high performance. And to me, high achievement is often, often pressure driven and identity driven.
00:03:14:21 - 00:03:39:00
Lisa
It's the belief that what we do, what we produce, what we have to prove, achieve, carry, or how we show up determines who we are. And it often comes with over functioning, hyper responsibility, reactivity and this feeling that success is somewhere we finally arrive. Whereas high performance feels very different, it's intentional. It's internally anchored, grounded, rooted in self trust.
00:03:39:02 - 00:04:02:05
Lisa
And success becomes less of a destination and more of an expression of who you already are and how you experience life. So when I look at your story, your leadership, your motherhood, your transformation, your reinvention, and now the work you're doing around human leadership in the AI era. I see someone who's clearly evolved through many layers of what success means.
00:04:02:07 - 00:04:09:12
Lisa
So I'd love to start here. How do you define success now versus earlier in your life?
00:04:09:14 - 00:04:31:25
Julie
Well, thank you, Lisa, and thanks for having me. And I was really was listening at those definitions. And I think it makes a ton of sense. And I think early in our life we have those, you know, we have the definition of success being both those two things together. Right? Like, I want to I want to achieve I want to reach the top of the mountain.
00:04:31:25 - 00:04:57:11
Julie
And I'm going to be, you know, amazing. And all the pieces in my life are going to get fit together when I do. And I think for me, the success has, has really to me, it feels like having your just being at peace with yourself. So the goals that you have ahead of you are ones that you're choosing right, that you feel good about.
00:04:57:13 - 00:05:25:26
Julie
It's not somebody choosing them for you or pressures like these are this is what you want to do and you're able to go after those goals. The the way you spend your time on a daily basis matters. You care about it and you know you're having fun while you're doing it. It you're you're learning, you know, you're achieving what matters to you versus a somebody else's definition of, of success.
00:05:25:28 - 00:05:52:13
Julie
I you know, I think that I came to this realization rather recently when I was at so as at Lululemon and help them, you know, grow through an incredible period from 2 to $10 billion. Crazy. Yeah. Yeah. And then, and then I, I was there. Right. I had done everything that I had set out to do, right in a traditional sense of the word.
00:05:52:15 - 00:06:23:04
Julie
And as global CIO teams, you know, big teams doing big stuff, sit at the table, etc., etc.. And after eight years I realized like something's off. And it was there's a couple things that happened that made me feel like I'm not in charge of my destiny, and I don't I'm here for the wrong reasons. I'm here for, you know, comfort.
00:06:23:06 - 00:06:49:00
Julie
I'm here for a paycheck. I'm here because it's the easiest thing to do every morning. And, you know, and I honestly, I sat with that for a while and reconcile that and realize that was that was okay for a while until I really had a hard conversation with myself and said, actually, that's not that's not what I'm about.
00:06:49:07 - 00:07:18:20
Julie
Right? I, I need something different. And I didn't have another job to go to. I just wanted I wanted to achieve something that I had never done, which was to be an entrepreneur. I didn't even know what that meant. But I wanted to be in charge of in charge of it myself. Doing that is I'm working ten times harder than I work at a long time.
00:07:18:23 - 00:07:29:26
Julie
But it's so gratifying because, hey, you know, I'm in talks of the work that I do, and I choose to do what? You know, what fills me up?
00:07:29:28 - 00:07:47:20
Lisa
Was it surprising for you when you reached? I think what many would call is like a pinnacle of success. And probably a younger version of you would have been like, wow, to be this at this level. Was it surprising to you when you got there to look around and go, wow, this doesn't feel the way I thought it would feel.
00:07:47:20 - 00:07:52:14
Lisa
It's not making me feel fulfilled in the way I thought it would feel.
00:07:52:16 - 00:08:16:24
Julie
It was a huge privilege, right? That job was a huge privilege. And I did not. I didn't, you know, I never dismissed that. Right? And getting to that point is always a combination of drive and luck. And I had both of those. So so when I got there, I was like, okay. Yeah. You know, I've been here, done that.
00:08:16:26 - 00:08:29:29
Julie
It was just over time. But over time, the challenge ahead didn't look like the challenges that were behind me that really filled my cup. Right.
00:08:30:01 - 00:08:53:15
Lisa
Well, getting into entrepreneurship, you're. You will always be challenged. Yeah. Always something new around the corner. Yeah. The reason I ask that is because I think for many of us, the the younger version of us, that the how we define success is often in the titles and the things and we can we can see things through the lens of still gratitude that we got there.
00:08:53:17 - 00:09:16:17
Lisa
But for many of the men and women that I work with, even with that level of success and gratitude for what they they've accomplished, it's really destabilizing for them to realize like, oh, I still want something more. And there's a part that can be like, but you should be grateful for what you have. Yeah. And that can keep us stuck for for longer than we realize.
00:09:16:17 - 00:09:29:18
Lisa
So I wanted to ask you about, leadership. Do you think that we often fuze our self-worth with our leadership?
00:09:29:20 - 00:10:02:03
Julie
Yeah, I do, I do, because but I think some of that is just how you define yourself. Like I define myself in how I lead. That's important to be. That's a reflection of my values. It's the impact that I have on other people. To me, it it's nothing to do with authority or control. It is, it is a way of, I, me to leadership.
00:10:02:03 - 00:10:26:10
Julie
It's not just, you know, having teams that report up through you. Like, how do you lead through life? What is the impact that you can have on other people? So, yeah, I, I think that a lot of my personal definition of myself, I don't know if it's my self-worth, but, comes through how I see myself as a leader.
00:10:26:12 - 00:10:44:20
Lisa
Yeah. I think many of us attach our identity to our leadership. Which then makes me curious about how you define self leadership versus how you would lead a team or a corporation. Do you feel like you're just as powerful in your own self leadership now?
00:10:44:23 - 00:11:05:12
Julie
Oh no. I'm the worst one to try to manage ever. I mean, I'll just give you a small thing. So I have, I don't know, a pot's right. It's a, it's a saying that if I don't take good care of myself, I pass out. So my body has a way of saying, like, you're not doing a good job.
00:11:05:14 - 00:11:29:13
Julie
So yesterday morning, I pass out, and I know the tracks, like, I need to hydrate more. I need to eat more. I need to just stay in balance. So, you know, hydrate during the day when I got to play pickleball at night and I think I don't make it through one game, I'm like, I am not in a state to be able to be out here playing pickleball.
00:11:29:13 - 00:11:45:21
Julie
And now this morning, my wife said if she gets up, she like, okay, new routine today you're going to be eating breakfast. You're. But those are the simple things that I can't manage. I would say I choose not to.
00:11:45:23 - 00:11:48:10
Lisa
Choose not to. I let love choose.
00:11:48:10 - 00:11:51:09
Julie
Not to do a good job of managing myself. Right.
00:11:51:11 - 00:11:57:02
Lisa
But you pride yourself on managing your team and showing up in your leadership with your team.
00:11:57:04 - 00:11:58:09
Julie
Doesn't makes it.
00:11:58:12 - 00:11:59:29
Lisa
Interesting. Yeah. Poor thing.
00:12:00:03 - 00:12:00:10
Julie
Yeah.
00:12:00:10 - 00:12:30:12
Lisa
That's why I was talking about how sometimes we tie our self-worth in with the way we lead, because we wear it when we're willing to show up for others at a higher level of performance than we're willing to show up for ourself. If that leadership went away, how we show up for ourselves matters the most. It really gives us an indication about where we are in our life, and I find that many high capacity leaders really derive their identity through being needed and capable and indispensable.
00:12:30:15 - 00:12:32:05
Lisa
As women, we're kind of like.
00:12:32:07 - 00:12:33:00
Julie
Yeah.
00:12:33:02 - 00:12:50:28
Lisa
Like, yeah, makes you matter versus looking at, well, who am I as a person and an individual? If all of these things were stripped away from me, how would I feel about myself? Would I would I feel good enough? And this is why I love talking to people in leadership, because it's such a nuanced conversation.
00:12:51:00 - 00:13:22:00
Julie
Yeah. Well, and I think you're like, I think you're right on. And I think for me, that was part of leaving Lululemon, getting my work from being really busy and being really needed and, that it didn't sit well with me as a person because, it's not the job, like, get stopped being in the job for me a long time ago, I was I was laid off when I was six months pregnant with my first daughter.
00:13:22:06 - 00:13:43:26
Julie
I was the breadwinner. And I had been, you know, I was a VP of an ad agency at that time, felt, you know, really good about myself, but good about that career. And, and then all of a sudden I went to being a stay at home mom. And so I had like my identity shifted tremendously. And I thought I'm never going to go back to work in a corporate environment again.
00:13:43:26 - 00:14:16:25
Julie
I don't fit in, I don't I don't want to be part of that. I don't want to be victim to it. Right. So I went through that whole thing of like that MBA that I got, that was a mistake. I should have done this instead. But staying home for 18 months and becoming a mom and realizing how incredible that was and how many other stay at home moms there were that I connected with, you know, check my judgment at the door.
00:14:16:28 - 00:14:38:05
Julie
Really made me question my own identity. And then when I decided to go back to work, it was it was for a different reason. But working is is, you know, it's a way to earn a paycheck, to do great things, to meet people, to have, you know, to have fulfillment in your life, but not identity.
00:14:38:07 - 00:15:10:17
Lisa
Yeah. Was that challenging for you when you left corporate to become a mom? So I personally found stepping into being a mom. This was one of the hardest transitions I made. I, I remember saying to myself, like, Lisa, you're just not hardwired this way. Like, I get you've got the anatomy to do this, but I, I always that was one of the places that I held the most judgment over myself because I, I didn't feel like I fit this mold of a mom because I still had, career ambitions.
00:15:10:17 - 00:15:29:07
Lisa
And, you know, I want to go change the world. I wanted to, I wanted I still want to change the world. Just in a more relaxed state now, so that identity of being a mom was really, really challenging for me. But at the time, I was driving so much of my worth from my doing and being busy, very similar to you.
00:15:29:09 - 00:15:41:09
Lisa
And motherhood felt like I didn't know how to find my footing in it because it's relentless and it's often not super rewarding in the beginning.
00:15:41:10 - 00:15:42:26
Julie
Very humbling.
00:15:42:29 - 00:15:59:00
Lisa
Very, very humbling. So what do you think happens to someone internally when they spend years adapting themselves to fit into specific environments? Because I know this was also part of your part of your journey.
00:15:59:03 - 00:16:33:16
Julie
Yeah, yeah. I think habits are developed. And one of the habits is that you make yourself, smaller. Right? So if I say I was in a room with a bunch of men and I was trying to conform, right. So that would mean that I'm trying to have my voice heard the same way I'm trying to be, you know, articulate in the same way as I'm trying to, you know, be like everyone around me.
00:16:33:19 - 00:17:03:15
Julie
I would spend a good part of my processing power, my brain, thinking about that. And so what that did was it actually disadvantaged me to being able to speak up in those conversations, to be able to bring my original thoughts and my original perspectives forward. And so I would leave those, those, those environments often just feeling not enough.
00:17:03:17 - 00:17:26:14
Julie
And I thought it was I thought it was me like, okay, because I'm not as good as, but I wasn't, you know, that wasn't the case. And but it wasn't until I really understood that my truth. And just standing in who I am is the right answer.
00:17:26:16 - 00:17:40:29
Lisa
So how did you get to that place? How did you go from feeling small in these rooms and editing yourself? And what I'm also hearing underneath that was kind of this proving energy. How did you go from that to standing in your truth? And what does that even mean?
00:17:41:01 - 00:18:01:17
Julie
Yeah. Well, when I, took a new job and have a mentor who knows me very well and, he asked me a question. He's like, Julie, how are you going to get this team to follow you if they don't know you? And up until this point, I thought that I was doing an excellent job of hiding the fact that I was hiding.
00:18:01:19 - 00:18:02:09
Julie
I love the whole.
00:18:02:12 - 00:18:05:14
Lisa
Thing in plain sight. I understand that pattern very well.
00:18:05:17 - 00:18:36:10
Julie
Yeah. I was like, what do you mean? He's like, Julie, nobody knows the real you. You've got so many walls up around you. And, I just he called that out and it smacked me upside the head because I just thought that I was I thought that the my way of operating, everyone was believing, but they knew like, it was obvious that I was filtering myself, that I was controlling myself.
00:18:36:10 - 00:19:03:18
Julie
And not that I don't control myself now. But, you know, I was I was choosing my words instead of just living. And so when he said that to me, it it opened my mind. I immediately got a coach who also knew me, and he had some very difficult questions for me. It was a tough half time to go through this and realize I'm making mistakes.
00:19:03:18 - 00:19:16:23
Julie
Like I've actually not been the best employee that I could be, right? I've been a leader that was leading based on the work ahead instead of, like, instead of leading humans.
00:19:16:26 - 00:19:19:17
Lisa
Yeah. Who are you being in your leadership?
00:19:19:19 - 00:19:21:04
Julie
Yeah.
00:19:21:06 - 00:19:29:14
Lisa
What was one of the most potent questions that he asked you that really shifted how you saw your leadership?
00:19:29:17 - 00:19:57:13
Julie
He he asked me a question that had me think about, my myself as a leader with impact instead of just a leader who, you know, who came in and did a job. And his question was, okay, if you're hiring to your team, you're gay. What are you saying to all of the team, all of your team members who are also gay?
00:19:57:15 - 00:20:34:06
Julie
If it it seemed like such an obvious question, but I hadn't yet correlated that myself as a leader, could give permission for other people to be themselves. And I have the ability to set an example and that that mattered. Yeah. So it was shifting from being a, you know, being an employee. Right, who was going to get stuff done to being a leader that had impact on broader impact on the organization and impact on the human beings around me.
00:20:34:09 - 00:20:35:07
Julie
Right.
00:20:35:09 - 00:20:44:12
Lisa
So if you look back now, can you name the emotional costs of working from this place of being behind all these walls?
00:20:44:14 - 00:21:09:21
Julie
Yeah, and that's part of the reason why I wrote the book. Yeah, right. Because I think it's just a huge tax that we have, in operating this way. Yeah. Personally, I minimized Cindi for years, not letting her be fully a part of it. Now, she didn't want to, so she would she would be the first to say she was completely fine within days.
00:21:09:21 - 00:21:10:28
Lisa
You're in. Does your wife.
00:21:11:00 - 00:21:33:23
Julie
Yeah. But like and at the you know, at the time, this is just how we operate, right. She was a teacher and, and neither of our parents either new or acknowledged that they knew we felt unsafe. So we felt like we had to live a life that was we had to portray an image that is different than who we were.
00:21:33:23 - 00:22:08:27
Julie
And so the cost of that was, you know, minimizing our relationship, minimizing her presence in my life, minimizing me to be just the part that people were allowed to see. I missed out on so many things. I look at grad school, right? I went to the University of Washington, incredible classmates, and I showed up as only a fraction of who I was and sort of build the relationships.
00:22:09:00 - 00:22:19:16
Julie
As powerful what it was it's given me because, like, I've gone through that journey and now I'm on the other side of it, and I have just such incredible clarity.
00:22:19:18 - 00:22:20:14
Lisa
I love that.
00:22:20:17 - 00:22:48:21
Julie
Terms of what's possible and why it's really important to be, I think the word authentic, this is over utilized. And I hate I hate the word vulnerability because it, you know, makes it seem like you're open for attack. But, you know, it's it's it is just being your real self, like being able to not worry about what other people expect of you in a different role or what they might be processing through their head about you.
00:22:48:28 - 00:23:07:25
Julie
Like when that no longer matters, then you can be fully into these conversations and be fully present. You can, you know, you know, think about what you're going to say ahead of time. You're there and you get you get to live in the moment. And that is what's really what's really powerful.
00:23:07:28 - 00:23:13:14
Lisa
I really love that. Do you still live from high expectations of yourself?
00:23:13:17 - 00:23:14:24
Julie
Yes.
00:23:14:26 - 00:23:23:20
Lisa
Okay. So you could you can you can makeover other people's expectations. Yeah. But you're still living under your own high expectations. How do you think that is?
00:23:23:20 - 00:23:30:17
Julie
Still high expectations I would say I'm wired to run hot.
00:23:30:19 - 00:23:33:02
Lisa
And what does that mean.
00:23:33:04 - 00:23:57:24
Julie
It means, it means I am always looking for what else and why not. And what's possible and. Oh should we think about this. You know for example it next month I said yes to going to New York from Seattle four times. I have four trips to New York, two trips to Chicago, one trip to Arizona in one month.
00:23:57:27 - 00:24:29:08
Julie
Now, who's in charge of my own? Schedule me right. So I can no longer complain about this because that is self-inflicted. But I also I, I, I want to make everything happen and I'm excited about the work that I'm in. And so I'll be like, yeah, sure. I mean, I have I could, I could just stay there over the weekend or and I think part of that is just being like a, you know, maybe a, a lion that's been caged throughout her corporate career.
00:24:29:10 - 00:24:35:17
Julie
And now I'm on my own and it's super fun. But also it's just part of it's just just my wiring.
00:24:35:19 - 00:24:58:11
Lisa
Yeah. And it's it's going to invite you into the next level of success in the journey for yourself. Because as somebody who also I love, I mean, I went all around the world in 2024, I spent most of my life on a plane in 2024. And even with loving travel, I've really had to learn to set boundaries around my time and my energy because that still comes at a cost.
00:24:58:11 - 00:25:26:04
Lisa
So what's interesting is we can move out of corporate where, you know, we feel confined and put ourselves in this world of all this freedom, which then actually robs us of our freedom, because then we're not feeling good, because we're living to these expectations that now we're putting on ourselves that we can never meet. Right? Because when when you live from this place of, loving expansion, because I'm hard wired very similar to you, like expansion and ambition and what's, what's possible, right.
00:25:26:04 - 00:25:47:07
Lisa
Like, how much can I squeeze out of this lifetime before they put me in the ground? But it's still being able to be like, how can I be present with myself and enjoy the things I'm creating? So it's always that, like, I want to go fast. And what what is the benefit of also slowing, you know, slowing down?
00:25:47:09 - 00:26:03:06
Lisa
I, I'm hearing underneath all of this that you are very probably high functioning, maybe over functioning most of your life. Like you can do a lot of things all at the same time and kind of give yourself a life for doing that. What do you what kind of cost do you think that that comes out for, for women?
00:26:03:06 - 00:26:08:19
Lisa
Because this is a pattern that many, many women get into this this really over functioning.
00:26:08:22 - 00:26:30:24
Julie
Yeah. I mean, I am a psychologist dream right now watching this, I, I'm pretty easy to read. What's going on here? Yeah. But I will say it's my first year. Yeah. Yeah, of, this, this life of choice that I'm in, and I'm having a blast.
00:26:30:28 - 00:26:35:29
Lisa
It's like a buffet table. Yeah, like you got to tie all the things at the buffet table right.
00:26:35:29 - 00:26:38:23
Julie
Now, and then you get it later, right? Yeah.
00:26:38:25 - 00:26:55:10
Lisa
Maybe. Maybe not. But I think that that's how we learn, though, right? How do we learn what works for us and what doesn't if we don't allow ourselves to go up to the buffet and try it, try all these things? I personally don't think that we can get life wrong or make wrong, like make mistakes.
00:26:55:13 - 00:26:56:03
Julie
Yeah, I.
00:26:56:03 - 00:27:24:28
Lisa
Think we just make choices and then those choices lead to other choices. And that's the most amazing part of life, is that there's always another choice to make. If you don't like. If you don't like how this unfolds, then you can choose again and redirect. And you already have so much, evidence that you're so good at that and that you can walk through things that are walk away from things that felt comfortable to go into discomfort again, which is really powerful.
00:27:25:00 - 00:27:40:14
Julie
You know, when I, when I first left, I was saying yes to absolutely everything because I didn't know what direction I wanted to go. I had a bunch of ideas and I thought, well, I'm going to try them all. So I said yes to everything. And then I learned that I actually had to say no to some things.
00:27:40:16 - 00:27:57:15
Julie
And that process of filtering, and I think maybe the saying now is going to be an option, like I have an ongoing challenge, or maybe I have to say no to more things as I figure out, you know, the things that are really fulfilling me. Yeah. And it's a great problem. It's a great problem to have.
00:27:57:15 - 00:28:29:01
Julie
But to your question of like, what does this do to women? I think this constant drive, it's okay to acknowledge that you have that in you, right? It's okay to say I'm super ambitious. I'm never going to slow down. But I'm in charge of it. And so I know that I control that needle. When I first left me with 11, I thought, I'm gonna kick back.
00:28:29:01 - 00:28:52:26
Julie
I'm not going to travel very much. And, like, two months. And I looked at my calendar and somebody asked me, I thought you were going to travel as much as, like I just realized, I'm the problem I had, you know, but I control the dial, so. Right. You know, I think if you're if you have those things in harmony, I'm not trying to change who I am.
00:28:52:26 - 00:29:08:02
Julie
I'm not trying to change my DNA. Right? My my, I thought I had a picture. My dad is sometimes over my shoulder. Here is professional baseball player. His dad's in the Baseball Hall of Fame. My competition achievement is.
00:29:08:04 - 00:29:10:09
Lisa
Hard to get into. Your family?
00:29:10:12 - 00:29:12:08
Julie
Yeah, so.
00:29:12:15 - 00:29:31:07
Lisa
And so, as you were talking about, you know, you may have to learn how to say, no more. I think one of the biggest lessons that I've had to walk through in my life, especially around setting boundaries, was realizing that the person I needed to say no to the most was me. I like being a parent to myself.
00:29:31:09 - 00:29:31:22
Julie
And saying.
00:29:31:22 - 00:29:54:02
Lisa
Lisa, like, yes, you can, but no, not right now. And and that that became so much more challenging for me than saying no to other people, because I had to override the parts of me that were like, but I want to. But then I have to look at, well, what is going to be the cost of that, you know, emotionally, financially, physically, if we're saying yes to all the things.
00:29:54:02 - 00:30:06:13
Lisa
So it's just I just find boundary setting and learning how to to manage ourselves as leaders. Again, that self leadership is always the most challenging part for most of the men and women that I talk to.
00:30:06:13 - 00:30:08:18
Julie
You know, I'm like.
00:30:08:20 - 00:30:09:25
Lisa
Yeah, right. You get it?
00:30:09:26 - 00:30:11:16
Julie
Yeah, yeah, I get this is what I mean.
00:30:11:16 - 00:30:37:08
Lisa
You know, when we when we enter into entrepreneurship, it's like you have just signed up for personal development. There's no exit. The gates of hell have closed behind you. It's all fun until it's not. And you're going to get the lessons that you need along the way to help you actually discover yourself. And I often say that we think we're here to grow our businesses, but our businesses are like our children.
00:30:37:08 - 00:31:08:12
Lisa
They're here to grow us, and we will get the lessons that we need through that. So speaking of kids, your story about adopting your son, really captured my heart when you were on stage. I really I always, like I said, I love hearing people's stories. So because of your leadership where you're really having to, lead people through, like, massive scale, where you're trying to create certainty and uncertainty.
00:31:08:14 - 00:31:42:15
Lisa
You know, you've used the word control quite a few times. Control plus mothership, like the creep, they cancel each other out. There's nothing we can control. So, you know, you talked about your son. You know, you went there to to to pick him up. And he was kind of like, no. Right. And and I wanted to hear what the hardest part about loving him when he wasn't immediately able to trust you, how that changed you.
00:31:42:18 - 00:32:16:04
Julie
So yeah. So for context, right. He was six and a half years old now. He didn't speak English. I didn't speak Amharic. And everything that he did was completely natural. Right. He saw these, you know, people that didn't look like him, didn't talk like him, did act like anyone that he knows. He saw them coming in and, of course had some questions and I can even answer the questions for him, but I wanted to I, I like I wanted to be the best mom for him.
00:32:16:04 - 00:32:38:17
Julie
I want him to know how much I loved him, yet I couldn't even connect with him at the beginning. So I had this kid that and I had. Here's my third right. I give birth to the first two, and with with the baby. Great. You start from the beginning, right? They're vulnerable and you get to feed them.
00:32:38:17 - 00:33:11:28
Julie
And, you know, as hard as it is, you're forming a bond. Yeah. And with a six year old who has, you know, lived a very different life than I have ever lived. Lived. He was just in a different space. And, when I went there and took him out of the orphanage, I realized that. Wow, this is a different journey than I've ever been on, because I can't make him trust me.
00:33:12:00 - 00:33:31:10
Julie
And I'm going to take this poor kid on an airplane to the United States out of this landlocked country in Africa. So all the questions go on through my head. Can I? It was really bad. Can I be the mom that this kid needs? Yeah. What? Yeah.
00:33:31:10 - 00:33:47:15
Lisa
What parts of you were really challenged? Because you're obviously highly capable and strategic and left brain like, analytical ways of thinking and like to be in control and solving problems. So how did adopting him change those parts of you?
00:33:47:17 - 00:33:51:01
Julie
Yeah. Well, can I tell a story about the coffee shop?
00:33:51:01 - 00:33:52:26
Lisa
Yes. I love you, too.
00:33:52:29 - 00:34:14:00
Julie
Yeah. So, so he the, the very first night was, you know, our first chance as a family. So we're in the the guest house. It's one room. And I was sharing a bed with my daughter, who was 13, and we had air mass with us, so it was the only double bed. And we put him between us.
00:34:14:01 - 00:34:35:14
Julie
We had the pillows. He decides to put his head down at our feet. He didn't wanna sleep with us like an act of just rebellion. And I totally understood. But it broke my heart. Yeah, I just let him know how much I loved him already and that everything was going to be fine. I just it wasn't. Yeah, it just was going to take time.
00:34:35:16 - 00:35:01:26
Julie
So the next day we got up and we were going to walk to a coffee shop. And as we're walking, this woman walks toward us and, you know, we we don't have anything to, to, to say to Eric. So we're just walking like, just come with us. And as she gets close to us, she starts singing the bingo song and he starts singing back with her.
00:35:01:28 - 00:35:22:25
Julie
We're like, oh my gosh. Like, he knows the bingo song. So the whole way we're like, And she was a farmer. Like, we went to all of the farm animals over and over. And she just like she had given us this gift of connection, which blew my mind. Like, I was like, how did that woman know?
00:35:22:27 - 00:35:42:02
Julie
Then we go to the coffee shop, and I tried to grab his arm across this really dangerous road, and I tried to pick him up, and he he put his arms down. I'm like, no, you're not picking me up. And so my heart is breaking at this time. Like, I can do this for me. I was I can be your mom.
00:35:42:02 - 00:36:06:25
Julie
You have to trust me. But then I just had to grab his, like, his wrist and take him across the street. And we walk into this coffee shop and, you know, we sit down at a table, he goes to another table that had these two Ethiopian businessmen at it. So at our table with Cindy, my 80 year old mom, Kenzie, a 13 year old daughter, and me.
00:36:06:27 - 00:36:31:06
Julie
And he goes to sit with these two Ethiopian men. And every part of my being wanted him, wanted to force him to come back. Just like, come on, everyone's looking at me and I'm thinking that I'm a terrible mom and I can't connect to my own son. I wanted to be able to, So these men were super patient.
00:36:31:06 - 00:36:52:02
Julie
They put their arms around him, they'd lean in. I can't tell what they're saying, but I can take it for so long, and then I stand up like I'm going to go over there. And Cindy, she doesn't say a word, but she gives me this look like, I like I have what I want, and she's like, just let it happen.
00:36:52:04 - 00:37:16:00
Julie
So I stood there. I didn't sit back down my way of being slightly rebellious because I really wanted to go over there. And, one of the men motions to me, you know, to come over. The man spoke perfect English. But as I go over there, Amyas walks away. He walks to the front of the coffee shop, like very intent on.
00:37:16:03 - 00:37:39:07
Julie
And that's how I'm viewing it. He's intent on telling everyone that I'm actually not his mom. And I feel very insecure. Right. The only white people in this country. I wanted them to know that I could be trusted. That I was going to take care of this child. But I wasn't doing a good job of showing it, so they they asked me to sit down, which I did.
00:37:39:09 - 00:37:56:23
Julie
Then they asked me a whole bunch of questions, like hard questions. They want to know his story, how I knew he had no family, how, you know, how he came to be in the situation. He was a. Yeah. How about me? Why am I there? What are my motives? Like, they wanted to know that I was the right kid to be his mom.
00:37:56:23 - 00:38:17:13
Julie
And when they were finally convinced, they called him back over and again. He goes between the two of them and they turn to him and they start speaking in Amharic, and they were just, like, huddled up with him, like that one had their arm this way, the other one had their arm this way, and they're just holding him and talking to him.
00:38:17:16 - 00:38:51:28
Julie
And they talked for a long time. Like, to me, it was a long time. It was all in Amharic. I couldn't understand anything except one word, which was Obama. And as they, were done with him, they turned to me and said, we have told your son that you are his family and that he should go with you, and he should love you, and he should have no hesitations about you, and that one day he should come back to Ethiopia, and maybe he can become Obama.
00:38:52:01 - 00:39:16:01
Julie
And so I you know, I was touched, but when we walked out of that coffee shop and we had to cross that road again, Arius turned to me and he put his arms up. And from that point forward, I swear he was all and we have had he have just been all in all in with this family.
00:39:16:03 - 00:39:38:26
Julie
So it was a gift. And for me, it was this realization that my nature of controlling I so wanted to control that situation. I so, to prove that I was worthy, I wanted to prove. And really, everybody else knew how to connect with my son except for me. So I had to stop controlling and let the woman in the burka let the man at the coffee shop.
00:39:38:26 - 00:39:51:01
Julie
Let them teach me, you know how to do what I really need to do. And I think just incredible. They saw that, like, somehow, intuitively, they all knew that that's what I needed.
00:39:51:03 - 00:39:56:16
Lisa
That story brought me to tears. When I listen to it, it makes me teary again. Hearing it.
00:39:56:16 - 00:39:57:28
Julie
Every day I get emotional.
00:39:57:28 - 00:40:21:05
Lisa
I say that partly because of your son, but partly because of the work that I do with the clients that I work with. Because and this applies for me as well. It's a life where you've literally been gripping everything so tightly, believing that everything is happened because of the control that you have exerted to create it. And, you know, to find more peace in our lives.
00:40:21:05 - 00:40:49:20
Lisa
It really requires that we we come to this place of still being responsible, like personally responsible for the things in our lives, but also making peace with surrender. And surrender isn't about giving up. It's about handing it over. And it's about recognizing that our intuitive ability as a women, our ability to feel that that is actually a superpower that all of us have.
00:40:49:22 - 00:41:11:11
Lisa
And when we can marry the strategic, the logic with the feeling side. Right. That's what actually creates safe containers for the people around us. Right. And we often think is like, you know, people talk about feminine energy as this, like, fluffy thing. I don't know if you've ever seen a female lion protect our cubs, right. Like we.
00:41:11:13 - 00:41:12:03
Julie
Yeah, it's.
00:41:12:05 - 00:41:47:13
Lisa
Pretty ferocious. Right? So the fact that we can be soft and nurturing and in this surrender state and still be highly like, you know, elbows up, so to speak. And mom, mama bear, that's what really creates that psychological safety for people around us. And it's what creates safety within ourselves. Because the belief that we have to control everything out here, actually, that's that's where people what I find with people is they're constantly chasing safety as something out here, if they control out here, then they'll feel safe inside.
00:41:47:16 - 00:41:47:21
Julie
But.
00:41:47:21 - 00:41:58:14
Lisa
Safety is actually something we create inside ourselves, which I find so fascinating. And it was such a hard concept for me to even wrap my head around.
00:41:58:17 - 00:42:21:18
Julie
Yeah. Yeah. No. So it's so true. And that to me, it's also the difference between head and heart, right? Which one's leading? You know, through a career as you read, lead a lot with your head. Yeah. And sometimes you need to just pause and say, what's that heart feeling in this moment? And that's when the big like, the big moments happen.
00:42:21:21 - 00:42:37:25
Lisa
I agree, and I think that that is really a big part of the shift that we need to see in women in leadership is if we go back to the beginning of the conversation, stopping women in rooms trying to compete against men, and how can we show up in those rooms differently with our head in our hearts connected?
00:42:37:27 - 00:43:16:00
Lisa
Because that's where our power lies. And that's an advantage that no man will ever have. Not to poopoo on our men because we love. We love our men too, right? But I think for women for so long to get ahead in careers have believed we have to become more masculine. And I want to believe that we're stepping into an era now, that feminine leadership and what we're capable of doing in the world, and the possibilities we can bring to this world, are going to require us stepping back and really recalibrating what that leadership is going to look like, which actually kind of moves me into, your work in I because it really is about
00:43:16:02 - 00:43:43:00
Lisa
creating psychological safety within teams as this like, monster of, you know, AI is coming in, which I, I personally am a lover of. I see the pros and the cons like and I and I always think that as humans we find opportunities. So while everybody's focused on like, oh my God is going to take all these jobs, yes it might, but what opportunities isn't going to create, right?
00:43:43:00 - 00:44:02:26
Lisa
Like I choose to live in the land of like this is going to create so much possibility for everybody that's going to create jobs that we didn't even know existed. I mean, even being on zoom when I was graduating high school, the my current job today did not exist. So as I was crying, not knowing what I was going to be when I grew up, zoom didn't exist.
00:44:02:26 - 00:44:08:21
Lisa
Online coaching didn't exist. It wasn't even a thing. Right. So I look at I am in clay.
00:44:08:22 - 00:44:09:25
Julie
Great example. Yeah.
00:44:09:27 - 00:44:35:21
Lisa
Right. What is going to be possible for our children. So if everybody could just stop focusing on what it's taking away and think about what are the possibilities. So I'm curious to know, when we talk about creating true psychological safety externally, is it possible to create that if you're not showing up in your leadership, feeling internally safe, like if you don't have that internal psychological safety within yourself?
00:44:35:26 - 00:44:40:08
Lisa
So how do you bring this into your work now?
00:44:40:10 - 00:45:03:03
Julie
Well, to answer that question, nope. It's not possible. Yeah. To give psychological safety, you have to be able to connect with the with your team and speak honestly. And they know if you're telling them the truth. And so if you're, you know, if you're saying, look I it's not going to take any jobs I promise. Like they'll see right through that.
00:45:03:06 - 00:45:26:05
Julie
You're smarter. Right? I think the, the, the more honest thing to say is we know that there's going to be tremendous change from I. We're inviting you to be part of that, please. You know, please leverage the tools available to you. And here's what I can promise that you're going to be involved every step of the way. You're going to do it like you're going to be part of this.
00:45:26:05 - 00:45:36:16
Julie
You're being given as many opportunities as I can possibly give you. I don't know where it's going to end at the end of the day, but I'm not going to try to convince you of something that's not true today.
00:45:36:18 - 00:45:37:10
Lisa
I love that.
00:45:37:15 - 00:46:11:16
Julie
So and that's what I that's where I think so many companies are missing opportunities today, especially by these massive layoffs under the headlines of AI when they're actually not because of I there because they over hired, or they're trying to course correct. The reality is we're not seeing the the efficiencies transition into, you know, headcount savings, in a proportionate amount to what the headlines say.
00:46:11:19 - 00:46:12:24
Lisa
Interesting.
00:46:12:27 - 00:46:40:01
Julie
So, the the companies that are doing that, that are, that are saying, okay, we just laid off, you know, thousands of people because of AI. Everyone who's still there is looking at the company and say, do I trust you now? And the answer is no. Like, how can you trust a company who emails everybody on a Thursday morning and, you know, cause it's something that it's not?
00:46:40:03 - 00:46:41:14
Julie
Well.
00:46:41:16 - 00:46:46:11
Lisa
Your work is super fascinating. What are you most lit up about it?
00:46:46:14 - 00:47:12:18
Julie
I love I love a potential. I think it fits incredibly exciting. And I'm working with companies today that are rethinking their business model. Like how can we get to customers differently? How can we produce products differently like that? The the companies that are looking at it in terms of what might be instead of like, how many heads can we get out to save off of our bottom?
00:47:12:18 - 00:47:36:26
Julie
Those are the ones that are going somewhere and inventing things. So, you know, everything is moving fast, so much faster than it ever has. That's the scary part. It's not the change, it's the speed. You do. But, I think, like, I mean, you probably know by now, a change addict, I like I like things moving and I is definitely doing that.
00:47:36:26 - 00:47:53:19
Julie
I think it does create, like you said earlier, tremendous opportunities. And I think the opportunities out far, far outweigh the, you know, the, the, the tone of the headlines that we're seeing today.
00:47:53:21 - 00:48:17:06
Lisa
Yeah. You know, fear is a really powerful way to manipulate people. And I think a lot of fear is, is being used to, to control and manipulate people. Yeah. That's just that's just my opinion. The world is a little bit cray cray right now, but I live in the land of possibility and opportunity. And I believe that wherever you hold your attention, you're going to get more of.
00:48:17:06 - 00:48:46:10
Lisa
So why would I want to hold my attention in fear? Like it's not going to stop AI from coming in? So I love seeing people that are pioneering it and saying, well, can we get people to see that this might be like a hugely positive thing for our world? Like, imagine if us as humans get to do more potent and, rewarding and fulfilling work because there's data entry stuff that is soul sucking nobody has to do anymore.
00:48:46:11 - 00:48:52:28
Lisa
Like that's a positive. If we can all gain our time back to live more on purpose.
00:48:53:00 - 00:49:24:09
Julie
I don't think it's a it's true. And, like I'm a case study when I first when I first started this, this chapter of my life. Right. I was like so much of my time, at least 50% of my time was trying to manage the logistics. And my previous job, I had a chief of staff, I had an EA, I had a comms person, and now, you know, like it's me with probably not the right skills to book a plane from, you know, here to Portland.
00:49:24:12 - 00:49:35:14
Julie
So I was stressed. And then you have the building in cycles and you're also. Now I've have I have six agents that run every day.
00:49:35:16 - 00:49:36:10
Lisa
Amazing.
00:49:36:12 - 00:50:10:26
Julie
That prepped me for my day. Give me the background. I have an agent that is like all of my undone staff. Promises, commitments. It reminds me every day. I have a travel agent that looks and says, oh, you're supposed to be in New York on Wednesday. You don't leave until Thursday. Is that right? So anyway, all these agents that help me operate at a completely different level and enable me to do so many more things that I would be able to do by myself.
00:50:10:28 - 00:50:42:10
Lisa
I love that, I love it like my, my partner booked his trip with my with our youngest son, the whole thing mapped out by I. I'm traveling with a 13 year old. We're going to start here, give us ideas of places to go and everything. Everything. The whole itinerary mapped out by eye and one of my fun and easy ways because I am not a chef, but I do love food, is opening up the fridge, taking a picture and saying, can you help me make dinner with what I have and then teach me how to use spices?
00:50:42:10 - 00:51:06:21
Lisa
And it's been so fun, like having my own personal sous chef, you know, and in my my little phone beside me, like it's just amazing. And that's just like, I mean, those are the simple scratch the, the surface type of things. So I wanted to ask you, what qualities do you think will become more valuable, not less, as we move into the AI era in in human beings?
00:51:06:24 - 00:51:09:06
Julie
Yeah. Discernment and judgment.
00:51:09:08 - 00:51:11:24
Lisa
Oh, interesting. Okay.
00:51:11:27 - 00:51:46:00
Julie
That is what I doesn't have. Passion. Curiosity. It's it's the the skills that have always made someone a good leader. But what I think is more commodity is the technology. So the hard skills. And this is why I, you know, at, at Whistler's time, I'm like, I think this is the era for women to really step forward because of things that we are innately good at are becoming more and more valuable.
00:51:46:01 - 00:52:05:21
Lisa
Yeah, I agree, those soft skills, which again, is so interesting because when I was growing up, I never considered myself, like Booksmart. But I've always had a high level. Like, I can just see patterns and just but those weren't the things that were valued. It was the score on the math test, which for me was always, always horrible.
00:52:05:24 - 00:52:26:20
Lisa
And now I'm living in this time where the the actual skills that I've spent decades cultivating, I see is highly valuable. So even when it comes to working with, I am building out prompts my ability to ask questions, see patterns, see things differently, means that I can get better results from what I'm asking because I'm not just going like surface level.
00:52:26:20 - 00:52:56:04
Lisa
I'm like, but what this and this and this and aware of my blind spots and how bring this person in. And so it's just really wild to watch the part of me that for many years of my life I condemned is like, what's valuable about that? So like, you need this fancy degree. And now it's like all the people with tremendous amounts of knowledge and wisdom that isn't necessarily what is going to be most valuable, because we can literally type in and get any piece of knowledge we we want.
00:52:56:06 - 00:52:57:14
Julie
Yes.
00:52:57:17 - 00:53:20:29
Lisa
It's so cool. Anyways, so as we kind of wrap this up, I feel like this has been such a rich conversation. So thank you for showing up and just really like going there with me. What have you become less available for in your life now? And how are you really thinking about success for yourself moving forward?
00:53:21:01 - 00:53:48:26
Julie
I, I don't do drama, I just have zero tolerance for it. I'm just going to say the truth, you know, and that that's been a process, right? You know, I think, you know, you start in your 30s and kind of edit out people that are not positive influences to you. But I'm to this point now where, like, I just I don't need any, any drama, like you said, like I can remember what you said, the land of optimism or whatever where you want to be.
00:53:48:26 - 00:54:01:21
Julie
I want to be that that same place. Yeah, right. Because time is short, so let's make the most of it. Let's have fun. Let's do great things. Let's be positive about it. Support other people along the way.
00:54:01:23 - 00:54:32:06
Lisa
Yeah, I agree, who you surround yourself with and what you let into your energy really impacts you. And so many people don't understand that a conversation like with a negative Nelly or Karen, it's it's it's actually unhealthy for us. And I'm at a state in my life where I'm really discerning about what I allow in into my field of vision, whether it be social media, the words that I hear from people I'm very discerning about, the thoughts that I even allow for myself.
00:54:32:06 - 00:54:53:04
Lisa
Like what things I shut down in myself. Like, we're not we're not doing that anymore. So we're not playing that story. And just really being discerning about the energy that I want to be around, because I want to be a positive change maker in the world. I want to have bigger, bolder conversations. I want to initiate connections, that will help expand people.
00:54:53:10 - 00:55:11:06
Lisa
I don't I don't want to be part of the dark, dense energy over here. It's not it's not serving us as humanity. And I think the more that the more of us that can step into, what's possible for us and really be willing to do the work on who we are, that's what's going to change the world.
00:55:11:06 - 00:55:41:22
Lisa
So I just think that you have such a fascinating, story of transformation, whether it was in leadership or motherhood or now in entrepreneurship, like welcome, welcome to this crazy world of entrepreneurship, it's going to constantly ask us and for everybody listening about how we can become more honest and more human and more willing to let go of the parts of us that are really going to hold us back from stepping into whatever it is we desire in our lives.
00:55:41:22 - 00:56:08:17
Lisa
Because I always believe that there's more. And I also believe that when we can be so grounded in that, we are living in more than enough right now, that's actually the thing that that that pulls in more. So Julie, is there is there anything, any last thought that you want to leave listeners with or any last question that you might have that you want answered?
00:56:08:19 - 00:56:17:29
Julie
I, I mean, as you were talking about that it what resonate with me, and that's exactly why I wrote the book. Yeah, right. I wrote this book, Chief impact on. Yes.
00:56:18:00 - 00:56:21:24
Lisa
And tell us all about it. Where people can buy it, where they can find you.
00:56:21:27 - 00:56:46:03
Julie
Yeah. Thanks, but I, I I'll do that and but, you know, it's a collection of my, the important stories in my life that led me to get to this perspective of what impact is. That's why I call it chief impact officer, because for me, that's the unlock. Right? That's what I want to do, is I want to have impact on a positive impact on others and on the world.
00:56:46:05 - 00:57:09:13
Julie
And that's been a very developing perspective of mine over time. And so I wrote the book to to talk about how I came to this, this perspective. And I'm really happy because it launches June 16th. So we're actually going to at launching. So I've spent a lot of energy there right now, but, yeah, can be purchased.
00:57:09:14 - 00:57:38:13
Julie
Any of your local bookstores, Amazon bookstore, dot com. But in terms of, your, your listeners, I would just encourage people to be patient with themselves, to be forgiving, to, to enjoy the journey that we're on. This is not about a destination. And I think when we talk about success, oftentimes we say, okay, I will be successful when I dot dot, dot.
00:57:38:14 - 00:57:53:23
Julie
No, that misses the point. You got to give yourself credit. Celebrate the milestones along the way, celebrate who you are in this journey instead of waiting for, you know, instead of waiting for a final step when. When everything's going to come together.
00:57:53:23 - 00:58:13:18
Lisa
Yeah. And it really isn't a destination. That's the interesting thing about success there. It's not a destination. It's a feeling. And we can choose it every single day, and there's always going to be more of it. But, you know, I think you're such a beautiful example of, you know, that was success. And it also wasn't because there was more.
00:58:13:24 - 00:58:41:09
Lisa
Right. And you get to just constantly redefine it. But it's really living a life that feels amazing for you, and you're doing things that are lighting you up. So it sounds like you've really stepped into that. So thank you so much for sharing so openly and honestly. Everybody makes sure you go check out, Julie's book, Chief Impact Officer, and we will drop all your social links below so people can come and follow your journey and and celebrate with you, because I do believe that, you know that.
00:58:41:11 - 00:58:53:11
Lisa
It's a very cliche saying, but, you know, rising tide lifts all boats. We we are all actually connected in, in this together. So thank you so much for being here, Julie, and sharing your wisdom and your time with me.
00:58:53:13 - 00:58:55:10
Julie
Such a pleasure, Lisa. Thank you for having me.
