EPISODE 342: The Camino Isn’t About Finding Yourself: What 100km (72 miles) of Walking Actually Reveals

00:00:06:29 - 00:00:33:12
Lisa
You built success that looks damn good on the outside, but inside it's costing you your health, your relationships, your energy. And no matter how much you do, it never feels like enough. Welcome to Congruent. I'm Lisa Carpenter, the coach. High performers call when they can afford to burn it all down, but they can't keep living like this either.

00:00:33:14 - 00:00:58:24
Lisa
Here we rip off the mask of success and expose what's real. The patterns that you keep running, the price that you've paid, and how to build success that fuels you instead of empties you. Real success is agency. It's powerful self leadership to run your life instead of being run by it. To let your drive and your well-being finally work together.

00:00:58:27 - 00:01:09:04
Lisa
Because the real win is success. That actually feels good.

00:01:09:06 - 00:01:33:23
Lisa
There are seasons in life when nothing is technically wrong. But everything feels heavy. You're tired in a way. Sleep doesn't fix your mind. Might feel noisy. Your nervous system feels like you're always bracing. And no matter how much personal growth work you've done. Clarity feels just out of reach. What I've learned both personally and professionally, is that sometimes the issue is an effort or discipline or even mindset.

00:01:33:27 - 00:01:55:12
Lisa
Sometimes the issue is your environment. This episode is about why changing your surroundings can change your state, your perspective, and your relationship with yourself in ways that staying put simply can't. Travel has been one of the most powerful catalysts in my own healing. I get emotional even talking about this, and it's something Sarah has leaned on for years.

00:01:55:13 - 00:02:19:23
Lisa
Traveling to India again and again and again to train, reset, and tend to her own wellbeing so she could show up more grounded in an incredibly demanding home life. Today we're talking about why distance creates clarity, why burnout isn't a personal failure, but a biological signal, and why stepping out of your life, intentionally supported and present, can be the very thing that brings you back to yourself.

00:02:19:26 - 00:02:40:21
Lisa
Sarah, you and I have now walked two Caminos together, both of which were completely different experiences. And I want to start. I want to start there because I don't think people realize how much changing their environment can change everything. So what is it about being in a new environment that shifts people out of their usual patterns?

00:02:40:24 - 00:03:04:18
Sara
It is, I think, a complete letting go of all of your surroundings, but the tendencies and the habits that go hand in hand with those surroundings as well, and how you occupy your time. All of those behaviors or things that you do that you find familiar are suddenly gone. And it's just you. And as you know, walking a Camino.

00:03:04:18 - 00:03:35:24
Sara
But in any environment that is different like that, you can't escape yourself when you have let go of all of the daily procedures that you're used to doing to occupy your time and mental energy, you are just with you and you're going to see beautiful things about yourself that you've never appreciated. You're going to see things in yourself that you do not like, and that you have to come to terms with and decide how to move forward with them.

00:03:35:27 - 00:03:51:15
Sara
But it's just truly a clean slate in a life that today is so consuming, with all different types of things that are predictable, whether for better or worse. Yeah.

00:03:51:17 - 00:04:08:19
Lisa
You know, when when life blew up for me in 2023 and you've been at my side through all of this, and of course you've been going through your own changes and challenges and were going to talk about you going off to India and what, what created that environment for you to to do that. I couldn't see a way out.

00:04:08:19 - 00:04:32:23
Lisa
So even with all you know, I've talked about this so many times, I was so proud of myself that I was living in integrity with what I coach like. It was really living and breathing, and at the same time I couldn't see like, how was I going to feel better because I was in an environment that I actually needed distance from, and even creating distance, you know, from my partner at the time, it really wasn't distance.

00:04:32:25 - 00:05:02:18
Lisa
So it can pick up in the stuff and the things, and, you know, making the decision to travel had been something I'd always wanted to do in my life. And I always found reasons why I couldn't, why it wasn't the good, why it wasn't a good time, why shouldn't business kids partner? And, you know, ultimately it became the catalyst for so much growth for me in 2024 that allowed me to move through a season that I don't think I could have moved through had I stayed put for the entire year.

00:05:02:18 - 00:05:20:14
Lisa
I think that the the pain would have increased, the discomfort would have been there, and it gave me such perspective, to just be on my own. I mean, that was the first time I took an entire month away from my family. And I know what you know, that what that's like, because you did that when you went off to India.

00:05:20:14 - 00:05:31:11
Lisa
Do you want to share what that was like for you in the decision to go because your kids were I mean, you know, I've got a teenager now and I was leaving, so I felt like he'd be fine. But your kids were really young.

00:05:31:14 - 00:05:49:22
Sara
They were really young. I will share that. I've been to India four times before I had kids, so it wasn't a new adventure for me. It was something that I knew I could depend on for healing, and it was a time in my life where I really needed some healing. My oldest child is almost 16. He he's an autistic non speaker.

00:05:49:22 - 00:06:20:06
Sara
He spells fluently with a letter board so we can have conversations. He could be on your podcast if you wanted, but at that time he was newly diagnosed. He was about three and he was not working well with any mode of communication. There were not many offered to him at that time. He was, you know, so small, and I was really struggling with finding the right way to help him because I assumed there had to be a right way.

00:06:20:09 - 00:06:42:18
Sara
There is no one size fits all approach when you're parenting someone with autism or parenting in general, as you know. But I felt like I was the glue of the family holding everything together, and I felt like I could not process my emotions at home because everyone was depending on me to keep things going at a time where there was so much uncertainty.

00:06:42:20 - 00:07:14:04
Sara
A lot of unprocessed, unhealed stuff with Ben and I. That's Rocco's dad and, you know, having another kid to parent as well, who was two and needing us. So it really was a chance for me to say, I know I need to do some healing, and I don't think I can do it here. In this mix of all these dynamics, I think I need some space for myself to breathe and process and also heal my nervous system, which a devoted traditional yoga practice will do.

00:07:14:04 - 00:07:37:29
Sara
And I had tons of evidence of that in my life. So that's what went into my decision to step away from my toddlers for a month. And it felt really edgy. I was afraid of what people were going to say about me, you know, leaving my kids for a month because no other moms were doing that. And at the same time, I knew if it didn't work out, I could just book a flight home.

00:07:38:01 - 00:07:45:05
Sara
It was okay. I didn't have anything to lose, but I had a lot to lose if I didn't do my healing work right.

00:07:45:07 - 00:08:07:29
Lisa
What did you notice about yourself the most when you stepped out of your daily role? Because that's that was something that was so profound for me, was just discovering who I was. Again, outside of being a business owner, a mom, a partner, you know, the I've come to really love the simplicity of my life now that I'm back in it.

00:08:08:02 - 00:08:29:24
Lisa
But at the time it was, you know, it never really felt like it was enough. It was always chasing more. But when I stepped out of that, I mean, I just I realized so many different things about the world. Me as a person, different perspectives, how other people live, how much I really realized, how much I, how much time I spend in my head.

00:08:29:24 - 00:09:11:21
Lisa
So even though I've slowed down so much and really work from a place of more, you know, peace and calm, there's still a lot of my default setting is to solve problems by thinking about the problems. So even though I know how to feel them when it doesn't feel good, I can go into the overthinking. And I really noticed that when we were on the Camino, the things that I was attached to, the thought loops, that I was really hooked into, the feelings that I did not want to give up, the pain that I was so committed to wearing and really seeing, like, I don't, I don't have to carry this.

00:09:11:24 - 00:09:12:12
Sara
Yeah.

00:09:12:14 - 00:09:24:20
Lisa
It was really, really challenging and I don't know if I would have noticed that if I hadn't stepped out of the daily role. So what did you notice about yourself, whether it was in India or on the Camino?

00:09:24:22 - 00:09:45:16
Sara
It was that I really just needed some space to process without all the people in my life depending on me and me being afraid of letting them down. And when I gave that to myself, I actually processed a lot very fast. The healing did not take long. It wasn't arduous. And I know we're always healing, so it's not like it was completely done.

00:09:45:18 - 00:10:11:28
Sara
But I was pleasantly surprised that just giving myself permission to have some space for myself to move through all the things that were wound so tight in my mind that it changed a lot, very fast. And I think that there's a fear in our culture of healing is going to take a long time, or hitting your business goal is going to take a long time.

00:10:11:28 - 00:10:19:13
Sara
But what if it doesn't? And what if all you need to get there is some space for yourself?

00:10:19:15 - 00:10:37:06
Lisa
What was what was so fascinating to about the Camino? And I did a podcast episode on this after we came off, right, because I made the commitment that I was going to walk the Camino and I was going to do it for me. And I had, you know, Sarah was at my side, and I had quite a few clients that were there with me, but they weren't there as clients.

00:10:37:09 - 00:11:01:16
Lisa
They were there as friends and colleagues. And, you know, everybody was walking their own path. And it was the first time that I really said, I'm just going to focus on me and I'm not going to pour into other people, which is so against my nature. I mean, my whole dharma on this planet is to support other people's growth and expansion and to be in that space of like, I'm not interested in getting to know anybody else here, and we'll link to the podcast episode.

00:11:01:16 - 00:11:28:17
Lisa
Anyways, it came to a head where I really realized, like how I was still struggling with feeling bad about not being there for other people, but also recognizing the power and like the personal power that I gained and the healing that came from me, just really focusing on myself and allowing myself to be supported by other people who loved and cared about me, because that, for me, has felt like a very vulnerable space in my life.

00:11:28:17 - 00:11:40:20
Lisa
And that is some of the patterns that I've had to on wire. So it's just I don't think you can gain those perspectives unless you move out of your environment and see yourself differently.

00:11:40:23 - 00:12:05:24
Sara
Absolutely. It reminds me of when you came to Peru with me. Oh, a few months after that, maybe six months after that, less and I was leading a retreat. And of course, if you've ever gone to the sacred Valley in Peru, you land in Cusco at a very different altitude than most people live at. And one of our group members got really intense altitude sickness in the first 24 hours of being there, and she recovered very quickly.

00:12:05:24 - 00:12:23:04
Sara
So thankful for that. And when we saw her afterwards, we said to her, you know, what did you learn from this? Because she's someone who does her work as well. And she said, I learned to receive help. Yeah. And that was a really powerful lesson that she probably would not have gotten at home.

00:12:23:06 - 00:12:40:01
Lisa
No. And this is a thing every environment is going to give you new and different lessons. You know, a big part of my travel was just saying yes, right? 2024 was the year of just saying yes. I went all over the place and half the time I had no idea where I was going, what I'd gotten myself into.

00:12:40:03 - 00:13:01:19
Lisa
When I stepped off the plane in Peru, I was like, why do I suddenly feel drunk? Because I didn't really understand how much the altitude was going to impact me. But allowing myself to have different experiences and be in different places and meet different people and not live so afraid, you know, growing up. So I left home right after I graduated.

00:13:01:22 - 00:13:20:27
Lisa
I was kind of, you know, that troubled kid I kept threatening that I was going to leave in one day. My parents were like, there's there's the door by. Yeah, right. Was that. And it never occurred to me to be in my young 20s and travel because I grew up with my dad really wanting me to be afraid.

00:13:20:29 - 00:13:34:04
Lisa
And it came from a place of love, right? He loved me. He he wanted to keep me safe. And, you know, the type of business he was in. He he saw bad things happen all the time. So we want to keep me safe. So I didn't grow up with this, like, buy a ticket, get on a plane, go somewhere.

00:13:34:04 - 00:13:57:10
Lisa
Because that did not feel safe for me. So even this year of traveling was about, can I manage airports that I'm unfamiliar with, with languages that I don't know, like, am I going to crumble or will I figure it out? And one of the things that I love about you is you're just so go with the flow. Like certain series, like it'll be fine, we'll make the connection, we'll do the thing.

00:13:57:14 - 00:14:18:13
Lisa
And I'm like, I have to be at the airport three hours before because it says three hours before. And even if it says two hours before, I should probably be there three hours before. So even seeing like wearing society was showing up in my life because the patterns that were showing up in travel, but recognizing that I could trust myself, that people are, I believe, innately good.

00:14:18:16 - 00:14:39:02
Lisa
That to be safe, I have to feel safe within myself first. And how often I wasn't feeling safe. So it's just it's so fascinating what travel can bring up. It just it wasn't a it wasn't something I was raised in go an adventure. It was like, stay home. If you're going to travel, you go with the family to Disney.

00:14:39:05 - 00:14:55:25
Sara
I that's what I grew up with as well, but for different reasons, not for safety reasons. It was because other travel was too luxurious and expensive to do. So. I grew up with you go to Disney or you go to visit relatives in Florida or and or you go to the beach nearby, you drive someplace and that's about it.

00:14:55:27 - 00:15:18:29
Sara
And in high school, I had the opportunity to do a study in Spain. It was the first international trip I ever took, and that's why doing the Camino for me feels like coming home, because it was the first time I ever really got to know myself in a different environment, and it was so powerful. And it taught me a lot about resourcefulness and having traveled a lot since then.

00:15:18:29 - 00:15:39:25
Sara
You know, that first trip to Spain just kind of got under my skin and showed me that there's an enormous world out there that is going to teach you things about yourself that you'll never learn in a book or on a podcast or in a classroom. And I just wanted more of it. So even though I didn't grow up like that, I kept finding opportunities to learn that way no matter what, however I could.

00:15:39:25 - 00:16:14:08
Sara
And it was just uncanny how every place I went, I became more resourceful person, and that made me feel safe because I knew if I missed my flight when there were no iPhones around, you know, back in the day, I would figure it out. There were times where I had to figure it out. And that's why when we were sprinting through the Madrid airport last year at top speed, thankful for our fitness, made our flights barely, I was thinking, but even if I didn't make my flight, I'll figure it out.

00:16:14:13 - 00:16:41:07
Sara
And you know, parenting a non speaker, what's the worst that could happen? I'm alone with my book for a few hours. Okay, I get another night in a hotel, some place alone. All right, I'll figure it out. And so I think it really gives us a chance to build that resourcefulness muscle. And if we never build that, it becomes really hard to trust ourselves because we don't have evidence that we can handle things.

00:16:41:07 - 00:16:44:26
Sara
When life gets a little right.

00:16:44:28 - 00:17:05:04
Lisa
So I'm not going to call in the experience of having to figure that out, because that still is like, whoa, there's a there's like an edge there for me. Like, what would I do? Ultimately, I know I would, but I don't I don't want to call that in. But what I did also notice was where. So I said I, you know, I would just say yes to things and then go.

00:17:05:06 - 00:17:29:25
Lisa
But I started to see this pattern of like, where am I leaning back and letting other people lean in because I'm afraid to try, right. So how many times have we been to Spain now? And I'm always like, Sarah, can you order Sarah? Can you say the thing? And the truth is, like, behind that is knowing I'm going to sound like a horrible Canadian with a really bad Spanish accent and probably say the words wrong.

00:17:29:25 - 00:17:50:06
Lisa
So when I was in San Sebastian by myself, I really relied on my Google translator. And no, Espanol became like my catchphrase. I should have just had a t shirt with it on and everybody was so lovely. They helped. But how often I was so afraid to even try to see the thing. So the goal this year is like, can you, can you at least like get in there?

00:17:50:06 - 00:18:20:08
Lisa
Like, even if you sound like an idiot, it doesn't matter because it's about the pattern in me about not wanting to. There's still areas where I don't want to look stupid. So it's so fascinating, right? And I wouldn't have discovered that because in my own environment, of course, like I feel confident and secure and done it. But when you put me in an environment where nobody speaks English, all of a sudden I'm like, oh, I like, I know nothing, one's pointing at things.

00:18:20:11 - 00:18:43:23
Lisa
So the Camino is really this opportunity as well. So the Camino is a really special track because it's a lot of days of, well, that's all it is. Every day you get up and you walk and you put one foot in front of the other, and it doesn't really matter what's thrown at you. You have to get to point B your bags there because we don't carry our own bags.

00:18:43:23 - 00:18:59:13
Lisa
We're a little bit boujee that way. But you have to get to point B now you can stop and take a cab if you choose to, which again, that was very interesting to see. The part of me when we were walking in torrential rain who was like, there's no way you're getting in a cab, like you're going to do this.

00:18:59:13 - 00:19:29:14
Lisa
Lisa. Right? Like high five to me and also like, and what was I making it mean if I got into a cab? So these are some of the lessons that that can come up on the Camino. But I'm curious your perspective. What do you think becomes louder when everything else starts to quiet down? Because you are I mean, unless you pop in your headphones, which you can, you're walking in silence and most people don't have silence or space in their lives these days.

00:19:29:17 - 00:19:50:23
Sara
That's very true. And I think it is so interesting how everyone focuses a lot on training for the Camino in terms of the distance that you can walk before you go, but people don't talk a lot about training yourself with meditation, and I love that you keep the silence because there will be times where you need silence and it's beautiful.

00:19:50:23 - 00:20:12:05
Sara
It's very reflective to walk in silence. But if silence feels unsafe because you are wired for hypervigilance in your life, you're going to come face to face with that on a six hour walk. And so why not become friends with it when you are home in a safe place and you can bite off a little at a time?

00:20:12:07 - 00:20:53:01
Sara
But I think people, when what I'm seeing now are craving silence, even if it is uncomfortable for them. They're craving healing. They're craving quiet, they're craving introspection. They may not know how to give it to themselves, but they are craving it. And I think the Camino provides that chance to be willing to be with yourself, even when it's hard, even when it feels great, when you're energized, when you're tired, when you're suffering because your feet are fatigued, when you are worried that you won't be able to finish.

00:20:53:03 - 00:21:20:26
Sara
You're just given this opportunity, this beautiful opportunity to be with yourself no matter what. And so rarely in life do we have that opportunity anymore. Because what happens? We feel uncomfortable. We pick up the phone and scroll away. And in life, even, we try to do a different version of scrolling away from being uncomfortable. When something doesn't feel good, you know, by something.

00:21:20:26 - 00:21:52:22
Sara
Eat something you know, do something. Make yourself busy with something. And on the Camino, you have a chance to just be with it. Yeah, and I think that's incredibly valuable and powerful, and it's hard to truly explain what that gives to people on the other side. I know we've done it twice together, and the second time, when it was not torrential raining, we finished and we sort of caught up with everyone in the square.

00:21:52:24 - 00:22:13:21
Sara
You know, as they were finishing and everyone cried. It was so beautiful. It was too powerful moment. Whether it was crying from relief or a sense of achievement, or just acknowledging that you did a really big thing, you didn't quit and you saw parts of yourself that some you probably loved and some you wish you hadn't seen. But you did it.

00:22:13:21 - 00:22:25:17
Sara
You didn't leave when it was uncomfortable. And I think there's something, a lot of things to be gained from putting yourself in a place where you can actually do that, and it's safe to do that.

00:22:25:23 - 00:22:42:29
Lisa
Yeah, I agree, I think there's something about the return to nature to. So the reason that, you know, we're going back to the Camino again this year and we're going to be bringing a group of people is we've done the two routes now, the one, the coastal Camino. I don't remember where we started. See, this is my problem.

00:22:42:29 - 00:22:47:15
Lisa
I don't even know where I am. I know, I'm just walking. Where do we start? For the coastal.

00:22:47:15 - 00:22:48:20
Sara
Support, Yona.

00:22:48:22 - 00:23:12:15
Lisa
Bayona. Okay. And this time, we're starting back in Syria. And what I loved about this route was I always felt like we were just in nature, whereas the the coastal route felt a lot like kind of in suburbia, suburbia, there was a lot more concrete walking. Whereas this is back in nature. And I really feel like, you know, nature's job is to kind of help us transmute energy that we're holding.

00:23:12:18 - 00:23:31:19
Lisa
And so many of us aren't getting out in nature enough. We're in front of screens, we're watching nature pictures on Instagram, but we're not actually connecting in with nature. And it's such a great way to down regulate your nervous system and just get present. And, you know, even my kids will say they feel so much better when they've been outside of of course.

00:23:31:19 - 00:23:51:07
Lisa
Yeah, this isn't something that's normal anymore. We're all kind of tied up. And then also in a world where AI is taking over and that's a whole other conversation. I mean, I was watching this cutest dog that they dress up and it slides down the hills in the snow. I'm like, this dog is so cute. Showed it to my partner.

00:23:51:07 - 00:24:17:12
Lisa
He's like, Lisa, that is an eye dog. I was like, legit. Like I did not know. I could not tell. And that like that creates such dissonance for me. And I'm really seeing this pull for people wanting to have real experiences in real life with real people that they can touch and feel and have conversations with. Because the line is starting to get blurred now, we know a lot of things we're reading is AI generated.

00:24:17:12 - 00:24:42:08
Lisa
What we're seeing is AI generated. So I just I feel like it's a reset to how we're supposed to be living on this planet, a reconnect to even Mother Earth, to say like, oh yeah, we are. We are meant to be good stewards to her. And most of the time, most people aren't even thinking about the planet they're living on, just like most people aren't connected to their body, which is another thing that I think the Camino really does.

00:24:42:08 - 00:25:03:13
Lisa
It is it helps you come back into your body because so many of us are living from the neck up in that thinking world, and the doing world. And when you are walking the Camino, you have to be present in your body. You're paying attention to where your feet are landing. You're, you know, paying attention to your surroundings, not in a hyper vigilant way, but in, like, it's just so beautiful.

00:25:03:21 - 00:25:15:10
Lisa
It's so beautiful. And we don't get that in our everyday lives, or we're not making, the same amount of time for it that we really need to in order to be healthy individuals.

00:25:15:12 - 00:25:17:11
Sara
Absolutely.

00:25:17:13 - 00:25:43:04
Lisa
So because of your background, you know, you work a lot with people on nervous system regulation, especially the, parents in your group and with your yoga practice. And you're always the person that I turn to for like, what are the practical tools? And we just did a podcast episode not that long ago around the holidays for simple exercises people could do to ground themselves what actually happens to our nervous system under chronic stress?

00:25:43:07 - 00:26:06:27
Sara
Oh gosh, your nervous system under chronic stress? Well, you'll basically live in a state of fight or flight, which we know is connected to burnout. And so yeah, fight fight or flight, fight flight or freeze. And people think that's normal because they've just been living like that for so long, they're not even realizing it's a problem. A lot of times.

00:26:06:27 - 00:26:29:15
Sara
So I work with parents whose kids are non-speaking and sometimes have really intense behaviors, or they're a low birth so they will bolt from the house. And so these parents are wired for hypervigilance in a way that most people just cannot understand. Many of their children have sleep issues that we work through. Right. And so these parents, if you ask them, hey, what do you want?

00:26:29:17 - 00:26:51:10
Sara
Always they're like, I need to rest. I'm depleted. I'm exhausted. I just need to rest. What happens when you give them two hours ago and you tell them to take a nap? It feels so unnatural to them to rest that they'll go online and do their grocery order or something, and they'll call it rest because they're nervous. System does not feel safe being still.

00:26:51:12 - 00:27:18:21
Sara
So people may not notice this though until they have a pattern interrupt. They're on a coaching session. They're doing something like the Camino, where they're really coming face to face with their habits, whether Mother Nature is calling them out or the person they're walking with, or their coach is and will be coaching on this retreat as well, they need that pattern interrupt to hold the mirror up and say, oh, wait, this level of functioning is actually not sustainable.

00:27:18:21 - 00:27:39:29
Sara
I always say it works until it doesn't. So I'll see people do this and think it's normal and tell themselves it's fine. And then they come back to me when their house is in disarray or worse, and say, I obviously have to change something, but I don't know how. So to everyone listening, you don't have to wait that long to hold the mirror up.

00:27:39:29 - 00:27:58:25
Sara
You don't have to push your nervous system to the brink where you're at adrenal fatigue and your hormones are a hot mess to help yourself find a better place. And I will also say something that you and I have talked about is that when you push your nervous system for a period of time, everyone experiences stress. This is part of life.

00:27:58:25 - 00:28:30:16
Sara
We can't avoid it. But if we don't tend to ourselves and heal from that, the body will feel those reverberations after the fact. Yeah. So you, as you know, might be saying, well, life is great now, but my body is still healing from the things I experienced three years ago. And I think for people listening, if you've been through stress and you've not given yourself time, space, a supportive container to process and heal, what are you waiting for?

00:28:30:17 - 00:29:01:23
Sara
Are you waiting for that rock bottom moment where your health just says, and we're done now? Like, we can't do this anymore. We're creating disease because you have not been listening to us and now we have to stop you. So disease might be the only thing that does, but it's so powerful to give yourself and your nervous system things that do heal you in small ways like movement, nature, meditation, etc. and I do believe, and I don't care what anyone says.

00:29:01:28 - 00:29:26:12
Sara
Time with people of like mind who can support your energetic growth is also healing. We are not meant to go through life alone. Humans. We're not actually biologically designed that way. And I was just at the American Museum of Natural History in New York City, and there was a quote on the wall at the end of an exhibit called Invisible World.

00:29:26:12 - 00:29:45:02
Sara
And it was all about how there are these intracellular networks where everything is connected, like everything on the planet is actually connected, even the things that don't seem connected. And the quote at the end was from a conservationist and it said nobody exists alone.

00:29:45:05 - 00:30:01:10
Sara
And yet we live these really isolated lives. We don't live in community often. And when we put ourselves in these situations where we're in nature, we're in community, it is deeply healing because on some level, it's what our bodies are naturally programed for.

00:30:01:12 - 00:30:23:21
Lisa
You know, it's not about having we're not meant to have a regulated nervous system 24 seven. That's actually not its job. It's meant to respond and then come back to, homeostasis for lack of a better term. Right. It's always responding to our environment. But what most people don't realize and what a lot of the pattern that my clients really get caught in is this functional freeze.

00:30:23:24 - 00:30:53:19
Lisa
Right? So they're really high functioning. They're able to work through and move through so much. They're able to hold a lot of stress, but they're also breathing very shallow. They're they're everything is tight. And an opportunity like this to be on the Camino is to let your body exhale so that you can start to feel like, what does it even feel like in my body for it to let go, to feel safe because I'm not having to hold everything at this moment.

00:30:53:19 - 00:31:14:28
Lisa
And I, I 100% agree with you. We are meant to be pack animals. Yet in a world where we have so many things that are able to connect us, we're becoming more and more disconnected every single day. So I think we should talk about why we're doing this again, because the Camino is over 100. We're walking over 100km.

00:31:14:28 - 00:31:19:28
Lisa
How many? What is that in miles? 66.

00:31:20:00 - 00:31:23:10
Sara
At least. I talked about three marathons in two days.

00:31:23:11 - 00:31:24:25
Lisa
Right? It's a long way.

00:31:24:28 - 00:31:29:07
Sara
Yeah, we did it twice. We made 106 days. That two days, right? I mean.

00:31:29:14 - 00:31:52:29
Lisa
We've done it twice now and I'm like, oh my God, we're going to do this again. And our first Camino. Full disclosure I mean, it was it wasn't physically hard like for me, for you were both very fit, active people. But the environment of the Camino was challenging. I mean, there were some mornings we were getting up at three, 4 a.m. because we were trying to beat the torrential rain.

00:31:52:29 - 00:31:56:19
Lisa
It didn't work. We'd started very well, but it did.

00:31:56:22 - 00:31:58:26
Sara
It kind of. It could have been a lot worse if we hadn't done it.

00:31:59:01 - 00:32:13:24
Lisa
It was. I mean, it was a wild experience, and it was very much a metaphor for what was going on in my life at the time. It was just kind of like, this is the path, Lisa. You cannot get away from this discomfort. How are we going to do this? How are you going to show up for yourself in the middle of this?

00:32:13:24 - 00:32:42:00
Lisa
So, you know, it was about buying bright colored raincoats and just like, well, I'm going to get wet, I may as well have fun in it. Like, I really learned to let go in the chaos. And I mean, I hate cold and wet more than anything. So we're going back this time. And I think it's important that we talk about why we felt called to do this and why we felt called to invite a group of men and women to join us on this adventure, because we actually don't know what it's we have no control over the weather.

00:32:42:03 - 00:32:45:22
Sara
Although we have chosen a historically dry time we have.

00:32:45:22 - 00:33:09:08
Lisa
We've really been strategic, like, how can we do this the best? But there's so many things outside of our control. Yep. But I just felt really called to knowing how much the Camino has impacted me in my life and my healing. Not to mention, I mean any opportunity where I get to walk and talk. I mean, come on, dream, dream job, right?

00:33:09:10 - 00:33:27:10
Lisa
And support people over an extended period of time. It just felt like a full circle moment for me to be on the other side of what was one of the hardest times in my life that I've ever navigated. You've also been going through incredibly challenging times, so I'd love to hear why you want to support people on this journey.

00:33:27:12 - 00:33:44:18
Sara
One of the things I love about the Camino I've led over 20 retreats all over the world. All different formats, all different places, different durations. One of the things I love about the Camino is that it's actually a very low barrier to entry. You need to be able to put one foot in front of the other, or call a taxi.

00:33:44:20 - 00:34:03:09
Sara
You need to be willing to have some conversations in coaching style. That's really it. I mean, with the yoga retreats that I've led, people get so many stories around, I'm not flexible enough. I'm not, you know, fit enough. I can't do this. I can't do that with the Camino. We know you can walk, and if you can't walk, there are people who lead.

00:34:03:09 - 00:34:32:23
Sara
Camino is for disabled populations, which is really phenomenal. So I get really excited knowing that anyone who wants to raise their hand and take the time to truly see themselves and grow and do some inner work, they can say yes easily, and I think that's really powerful. I also think there is something very special when you hold a retreat group in what I consider to be a sacred place.

00:34:32:23 - 00:35:05:11
Sara
I've led retreats all over the world. As I said, some of them are luxury spa resorts and those have been super fun. But the ones that have been really special have been at historic sites that are deeply spiritual. Like I've take people to the Golden Temple, and in India, I've taken people to Machu Picchu twice. When you have that spiritual undertone, it changes something in the energy, in the participants ability to be introspective and the Camino is a path that's been walked for a thousand years by pilgrims who are going to.

00:35:05:18 - 00:35:38:01
Sara
It's traditionally a Catholic pilgrimage, but now it's done by people from all over the world who are going with the intention of growth, the intention of shifting something in themselves or in their lives. And I think when you collectively are walking a path, literally every step you're taking has that shared energy. Something really powerful happens. And it's not always something that's easy to articulate, but you change from that collective energetic exposure.

00:35:38:03 - 00:36:01:26
Sara
So for me, that's another reason why I'm very excited to take people here. This isn't just a coaching retreat at Bougie Spa, though. We'll make sure you get to a spa if you need one and have a boogie dinner if you need one of those two, we're on it. Right? But yeah, but it's a chance for you to really have something sacred in your life, in your own way.

00:36:01:26 - 00:36:25:13
Sara
That's not dogmatic, which is very powerful with nature, which is, you know, like nature is to me, church. Yeah. I agree. And so I think to have that container for a week of walking and doing this work, it just feels very, very special and unlike anything else that I have done. Yeah.

00:36:25:15 - 00:36:54:10
Lisa
So it was really one of the most profound that that first Camino was one of the most profound experiences that I've had in my life. So, you know, when I think about being able to walk shoulder to shoulder with people and support them on whatever is coming up in their lives, and things will come up on that walk that they don't even know they need to be addressed because they've never allowed themselves to get quiet enough to be with it, or they haven't been with somebody who can listen to what they're saying, but hear what's under the words and that's what coaching does, right?

00:36:54:10 - 00:37:19:29
Lisa
We're we're listening for what are you really saying without you even knowing where this is coming from? So it's just going to be such a potent and profound experience for for those who decide to join us. And I just feel so honored to be able to go back and this time have the capacity to actually do what I've been put on the planet to do, because I took the time to tend to myself so that I have more energy to pour into other people.

00:37:19:29 - 00:37:29:01
Lisa
And that's really what it's about. When you pour into yourself, you will be able to come back and pour more into the things that truly matter in your life 100%.

00:37:29:01 - 00:37:53:06
Sara
And I remember after our first Camino, we finished and then we went to this beautiful hotel and that was an intense experience. Finishing the Camino. We were walking in the rain most days. You were coming off some really intense times in your life that you were processing. We were all processing stuff, but especially you with that intention to be with yourself for the first time, really in that way.

00:37:53:09 - 00:38:14:26
Sara
And I remember we were at this beautiful hotel, and some of us were planning to go on a night tour of the cathedral, and I could tell just from the conversations that we were having and from being a coach. Also, I said to you, it's like, I think you need to stay home and stay in bed tonight and just be with yourself and allow yourself some space to integrate everything that you've just done.

00:38:14:26 - 00:38:38:07
Sara
Because for me, it was not my first rodeo with being with myself for an extended period of time, so I was a little more prepared for what it would be like and the way the insights hit you and kind of how to move through it. But for you, it was brand new, and I felt thankful that I was able to say, I get how you feel in this moment.

00:38:38:07 - 00:39:02:06
Sara
I have been there. Just give yourself permission to be with yourself a little bit longer, even though the Camino is over. And for me, that's why I felt so strongly about having an integration day on the end of our Camino, because I didn't want people to have these massive realizations and then be packing their bag and getting on a plane home and trying to integrate in the middle of work and family and all of these things.

00:39:02:06 - 00:39:32:00
Sara
I thought that would not be in service to anybody. So I love that you and I have done this. It's not our first rodeo, and we can hold that space for people and saying, oh, you weren't expecting this to come up, but it did. Here it is. We're here to support you in moving through it so that by the time you do go home, you are more integrated and you can feel more aligned with the person that you've just grown into during this experience.

00:39:32:02 - 00:39:51:10
Lisa
So when we think about the people that are feeling exhausted, stuck, disconnected, but can't really name why, what do we need them to know about what becomes possible when they give themselves distance and space? Just so we can wrap this episode up in a bow, and then I'll let everybody know where they can find out more about this retreat.

00:39:51:12 - 00:40:10:00
Sara
The word that comes to mind for me is fulfillment. I think sometimes we get stuck in these rope patterns in our lives, even good ones. But what works now doesn't mean it's going to work 20 years from now. And when you give yourself that space, it gives you a chance to really check in with yourself and say what do I actually want?

00:40:10:02 - 00:40:28:22
Sara
What do I need to give myself to get there? Who do I need to be to get there and so often when those questions come up in our daily lives, if you're not working with coach to support you, the knee jerk reaction is, oh, but I can't because I've got all these things that are depending on me. You and I have to keep doing.

00:40:28:24 - 00:40:51:10
Sara
Do you though? Why not just pull yourself out of that environment and really give yourself a chance to ask that question of what would be deeply fulfilling in my life on any level, and be curious and surrounded by people who can support you in moving towards that, instead of staying in patterns that you don't really want just because you're used to them.

00:40:51:13 - 00:41:11:14
Lisa
You know, I think that staying stuck is often a, it's about perspective, right? Because we, we live in our box of reality or our frame of reality. The things that we were indoctrinated into, the beliefs that we were given. And we often don't know how to think outside that box because we haven't been shown that there's something outside the box.

00:41:11:16 - 00:41:28:22
Lisa
Right? Like a fish doesn't actually know what it's like for to be a bird. And if you're standing at the bottom of a mountain, you only have the perspective of what you see standing at the bottom of the mountain. But when I've walked people to the top of, like Whistler, for instance, there's a whole different view up there.

00:41:28:22 - 00:41:48:13
Lisa
The world is absolutely different when you are standing on top of the mountain and seeing it. So the best way to get stuck, in my opinion. And again, right back to where we started this episode, is shifting your environment. It seems like such a simple thing, but it can be so incredibly profound for how you can find your way.

00:41:48:16 - 00:42:01:04
Sara
If I may add, very briefly shifting your environment, but to an environment that actually supports our human growth. I'm not talking about, like having a tequila on the beach in Mexico, though, there's a time and a place.

00:42:01:04 - 00:42:02:13
Lisa
A time for that.

00:42:02:16 - 00:42:23:26
Sara
There's a time and place for that. But if you're feeling stuck, that's not going to get you to the other side of it. What will get you to the other side of it is some deeper work with trusting people and a trusting container, and allowing yourself to move through things that feel great and uncomfortable. With that support. Yeah.

00:42:23:29 - 00:42:28:18
Lisa
Coming home. I hate that phrase coming home to yourself, but trusting yourself. But that's really I like.

00:42:28:18 - 00:42:29:04
Sara
It journey.

00:42:29:04 - 00:42:44:26
Lisa
As do I find it very like cliche and cocky speak and it kind of repels some of my people. But I think it because it's so it's so, it's not defined. What does it mean to come home to ourselves? Right. We're home all the time, but we're not.

00:42:44:28 - 00:42:57:16
Sara
But I also think it only is meaningful if home is a place where you feel contentment. I love that it's not a joyful place for you. If home is not a place for you to feel fulfilled, you're not going to want to come home to anything.

00:42:57:23 - 00:43:16:13
Lisa
Yeah, I agree, I think that most people have never looked at the perspective of they are home for themselves, right? Because that's that's the big disconnect. And that's kind of what we're offering up. So we're going to tie up this episode. If you are interested in joining us on the Camino or finding out more information, you can check that out at the link.

00:43:16:13 - 00:43:21:02
Lisa
Lisa Carpenter, aka Forward Slash Camino. The dates are.

00:43:21:05 - 00:43:26:07
Sara
September 20th 1st to October 2nd, 2026.

00:43:26:09 - 00:43:45:03
Lisa
That's right. And we've got integration days. We've got. We take care of everything for you. You just have to show up and walk. And you can carry a light day backpack if you want. But we will be, making sure everybody's luggage is moved from hotel to hotel. So you really just have to show up and care for you, and that's it.

00:43:45:03 - 00:44:03:07
Lisa
So we'd love to have you join us. Thank you, Sarah, for coming on. This has been very nostalgic for me. We brought up a lot of brought up a lot of really good memories. You know, it's amazing that one of the worst times in my life really contains some of the most beautiful memories that I have. As it is, right?

00:44:03:07 - 00:44:11:02
Lisa
The lessons that are given us. So thank you so much for coming on. I can't wait to see who we're going to be hosting on the Camino. And I can't believe we're doing it again.

00:44:11:05 - 00:44:32:16
Sara
The group is already shaping up to be really amazing, is that people who are really, I think, of as powerful individuals who all bring something really unique and exciting to the group. Everyone's so different, but I that gets me excited as well because I'm an extrovert, so I love being in a group that feels safe and right to do the work.

00:44:32:19 - 00:44:52:29
Sara
There are many groups that do not feel like that and have turned me off, but we get to curate a group that feels really right for this experience. And to me that's exciting because when you get a group of really powerful people together, what do you think is going to happen on the other side of that experience? Anything is possible, and I get very excited to be in that energy as well.

00:44:52:29 - 00:45:11:04
Lisa
Yeah, because it's not just us facilitating. It's the conversations you're going to have with other people. And I think it's really important to mention that this is a coed, not that we'll be sleeping coed, but it's open to both men and women. We do have men registered, which is a really cool, energetic dynamic to have that masculine energy, grounding the group too.

00:45:11:04 - 00:45:33:12
Lisa
So that's a really beautiful, beautiful thing. So anyways, thanks for coming on Sarah. I hope everybody gets a lot of value out of this. Whether you're on the Camino or not. Look at your environment. Look at how you want to change your environment. What does it mean for you to come home to yourself? What does it mean to create stillness and, you know, get back out into nature and connect with the things that are so important?

00:45:33:14 - 00:45:35:04
Lisa
Thanks so much, Sarah.

00:45:35:07 - 00:45:35:24
Sara
My pleasure.