EPISODE 330: The Cost of Playing Small: What Happens When Making Things Look Perfect Keeps You From Being Real with Sarah Albritton

00:00:00:00 - 00:00:33:12
Lisa
You built success that looks damn good on the outside, but inside it's costing you your health, your relationships, your energy. And no matter how much you do, it never feels like enough. Welcome to Congruent. I'm Lisa Carpenter, the coach. High performers call when they can afford to burn it all down, but they can't keep living like this either.

00:00:33:14 - 00:00:58:24
Lisa
Here we rip off the mask of success and expose what's real. The patterns that you keep running, the price that you've paid, and how to build success that fuels you instead of empties you. Real success is agency. It's powerful self leadership to run your life instead of being run by it. To let your drive and your well-being finally work together.

00:00:58:27 - 00:01:11:04
Lisa
Because the real win is success. That actually feels good.

00:01:11:04 - 00:01:23:06
Speaker 1
around you. But if you're honest, you've been playing small, making things look perfect. So no one sees the truth underneath. Saying I'm just. When someone recognizes your power. I know I've done that.

00:01:23:08 - 00:01:52:01
Speaker 1
Shrinking yourself so others feel comfortable. Welcome to congruent. I'm Lisa Carpenter, and this podcast is about the truth beneath success. The cost you've carried, the wake up calls you couldn't ignore, and what it really takes to build success that actually feels good. Today's guest has spent over 30 years coaching $1 billion business leaders and visionary founders. I was so excited to have Sarah Albertson on the podcast because she is known for delivering what she calls

00:01:52:01 - 00:02:01:09
Speaker 1
catalytic jolts of clarity, helping the world's most accomplished leaders torch limiting patterns and reclaim aligned leaderships.

00:02:01:11 - 00:02:24:23
Speaker 1
She works with CEOs and senior executives who look unstoppable from the outside, yet privately feel their compass spinning. But before she was coaching the world's elite, Sarah was living the pattern so many of us know too well. High achiever with imposter syndrome, making everything look perfect on the outside while carrying chronic physical pain from years of not being real.

00:02:24:26 - 00:02:53:06
Speaker 1
Playing small so that others would feel comfortable while her body screamed. What she wouldn't say out loud until the day she caught herself shrinking in a room full of elite coaches and made the conscious choice to show up bigger. This conversation is about the real cost of playing small, what it takes to stop making things look perfect and start being real, and what becomes available when you finally show up as big as you actually are.

00:02:53:08 - 00:02:56:12
Speaker 1
If you've ever caught yourself saying, I'm just

00:02:56:12 - 00:03:01:11
Speaker 1
when you know you're so much more. This episode's for you. Let's dive in.

00:03:01:11 - 00:03:21:16
Lisa
Sarah, I am so glad that we get to do this. I know it's taken us a while to connect again, and you and I met at one of Rich Lipton's events. Where was that? In New Mexico, I think. Right? Yeah, and I really gravitated towards your energy. I know you've been in coaching for a long time. You hold this beautiful like power and grace.

00:03:21:16 - 00:03:39:00
Lisa
You navigate both at the same time. You have a really strong presence, but also very welcoming. And that's something that I have worked hard in my own life to have this power about me, but also this like welcoming grace and presence. And you really gave that off. So I'm like, who I like, I like her, and we need to have,

00:03:39:02 - 00:03:39:17
Sarah
Like a track.

00:03:39:19 - 00:03:58:21
Lisa
Conversation. I know. Right? Like, it's so amazing energy because we are always an energetic match for where we're vibrating in the world. And I know you're into, you know, angel cards and some of the woo stuff that nobody talks about. But we're all actually using our intuition. So I thought this was going to be a great, conversation.

00:03:58:21 - 00:04:20:26
Lisa
Now, I also know you work with really high achieving leaders, right? That you hold a lot of space and a lot of confidential confidentiality for people who, you know, the leaders that we work with, they often feel lonely, and they need people like you and I in their lives, because we're the one person that isn't going to really put up with their boss and also aren't going to be trying to make them feel warm and fuzzy.

00:04:20:26 - 00:04:48:00
Lisa
Everybody else in their life is placating to them. So. So when people see you today and, because you've coached some of the most accomplished leaders in the world, people see your wisdom and your success. But there's always a story beneath that. There's always a story towards success. So what what don't people see about you?

00:04:48:02 - 00:04:50:20
Sarah
Who just jump right in there Lisa.

00:04:50:23 - 00:04:57:17
Lisa
I, was it's not a it's not a gradual entry on my podcast. I know people who can go deep, so let's just go.

00:04:57:20 - 00:05:32:21
Sarah
Cowabunga! Right. Yeah. So I think, like most of us, people don't see the insecurities. People don't see the, you know, the the oh. Who, me? Kind of kind of energy. And as I have lived that and I'm living with a different I'll call it a different punctuation of that. So rather than who question mark me question mark.

00:05:32:21 - 00:05:35:08
Sarah
Now it's who question mark me exclamation point.

00:05:35:15 - 00:05:36:21
Lisa
Oh, I love that.

00:05:36:23 - 00:06:03:27
Sarah
You know. So so I'm, I'm on writing that wave, but I can't deny that the question mark in both spots still, still pops back in from time to time. I literally was just saying last night because of I went to, I left home when I was 13 and went to a boarding school, went to a relatively elite college and all that kind of stuff.

00:06:03:29 - 00:06:28:09
Sarah
And I have kind of run with the fast crowd in that intellectually and, and so forth most of my life, and have always been like the BC student to their abstinence and so, you know, my no one was more surprised than my high school college advisor. When I got into the college, I got into, she advised me not to apply.

00:06:28:27 - 00:07:00:01
Sarah
And so, so while so it's just interesting to step into other circles and have people, as you so kindly do, sort of attribute power and wisdom and, and all these things, and as many of us do at different milestones in our life, it's kind of like, oh, I need to go back and review all of those those play films because, yeah, there's a reason that I didn't date a lot in college, and it wasn't because I was weird.

00:07:00:01 - 00:07:31:03
Sarah
It was because I was powerful and people were scared of me, you know? And I just couldn't see it. I just assumed it was because I wasn't pretty enough or I wasn't, you know, whatever. And and fill in that script to that template into a lot of different scenarios. So at this stage of, of my life, what people probably don't see is, although I do try to say it, I mean, I'm on a journey just like everybody else.

00:07:31:05 - 00:08:07:13
Sarah
And so, yeah, maybe I stay afraid a shorter period of time than other people, but it doesn't mean that I don't experience kind of the oh shit, what have I done kind of moments from time to time? I'm resilient and I bounce back and I, you know, reframe and I meditate and I get my downloads and kind of see where the pieces fit, maybe faster in a more accomplished, more nuanced way than than other folks who aren't doing this work regularly like I do.

00:08:07:15 - 00:08:26:25
Sarah
But we are having a parallel experience of fully human and fully divine. We're not on a continuum. And so when those days come, the hiccups or the bumps or the potholes, you know, that's a human experience. That's part of what I signed up for.

00:08:26:27 - 00:08:57:13
Lisa
I love that you said all of that, because I think that so often when we reach a level of success with people looking from the outside at us, assume that we have it all together. They see us in our leadership, but what they don't see and what I'm hearing you say, and it's similar for me, is there were years, most of my life that was grounded in like insecurity, not good enough, not smart enough, always feeling like I was chasing the pack.

00:08:57:15 - 00:09:18:02
Lisa
Yeah, but not really allowed a seat at the table. And it took me a lot of work on myself to say, like, wait a minute, I do get to have a seat at the table. And that was active. Like that was active work. Like I had to choose to belong at the table, and then I had to actively shut down the parts of myself that wanted to continue to tell me, you don't get to be there.

00:09:18:04 - 00:09:46:21
Lisa
And, most people who are successful have been chasing something or trying to get away from something their entire life. So I really love that you shared. I really love that you shared that story, because I'm sure you often stand with the leaders and the people you support. Maybe it's just me and I think like, wow, like, how did I get so fortunate to be supporting this person when I see them as, like, so much more successful than I am?

00:09:47:16 - 00:10:08:24
Lisa
But there's a role that I play in their life and there's a role that they play in my life. It's, it's a really beautiful, it's a really beautiful thing. So if you look back on your life and your leadership, what did success and leadership mean to you back in the day? I love the giggle, right?

00:10:08:24 - 00:10:14:25
Sarah
Not that far, at least. So far. What did success and leadership mean back.

00:10:14:28 - 00:10:20:14
Lisa
Yeah. Like how did you define it before you knew what success and leadership really was?

00:10:20:17 - 00:10:36:15
Sarah
Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, you know, I started my career in higher education leadership in higher education administration. So I defined early on I define leadership as a dean's position. You know, of.

00:10:36:21 - 00:10:37:01
Lisa
I'm.

00:10:37:03 - 00:11:03:00
Sarah
Working my way up now, you know, to to your earlier point about our similarities and our drive. You know, I applied for my first Dean's position at 28 years old and nobody older. Dean's usually know, like if you're young, 38, 39, usually 45 or 50. But it just it felt like the thing to do at the time.

00:11:03:02 - 00:11:27:25
Sarah
So, so, and it didn't work out, but it was an example of this is a little bit tangential to your question. I'll get back to your question, but I've always thought go for the big thing and whatever else. Just just by shaking that tree, other fruits kind of fall and and then then you get maybe some choices.

00:11:27:27 - 00:11:51:20
Sarah
So I and I think actually I applied for an associate Dean's position at like 26 and thinking there's no way in hell I'm going to get that position. But if there's an internal candidate who does, then that role is going to open up and I'll be there waiting. You know? And lo and behold, I actually got an interview for that position.

00:11:51:22 - 00:12:16:27
Sarah
And the very thing that I had envisioned happened. We got along great. It was a great fit, but there's no way I was ready for an Associate Dean's position. But the internal person was promoted. I took her old job and I had a happy life for two years at an institute at a college in Chicago and, you know, morphed and parlayed that into other things.

00:12:17:00 - 00:12:48:19
Sarah
So it so there's always been at the beginning of my career, there was always, oh, the next academic administrative position of some kind. And I had. So I had a mentor early in my career who was an older woman. She was probably as funny through my eyes now as she is. I was going to somebody younger than I am now.

00:12:48:27 - 00:13:06:18
Sarah
But anyway, so she was probably in her 50s or early 60s and she, we were having a conversation that was working for her, and she said, so, you know, what are your career goals? What do you what do you want to do? And I and I was 22 and said, well, I want to be a dean like you one day.

00:13:06:21 - 00:13:31:00
Sarah
And she looked at me in all seriousness and said, why would you want to do that? Why? Why aren't you aiming to be a college president and any college president at that time? So this was the early 80s. Was male, right? I mean, there were no I mean, maybe a few women's colleges had women presidents, but there were very few women in a president's role.

00:13:31:02 - 00:13:51:13
Sarah
And, I mean, I was ballsy enough to think I could do it, but I, I said, well, because I don't want that life. I see what they do and they never see their kids. They're always traveling. They're always doing all these things. And that's not what I want. And she said something really pivotal to me, and she said, what makes you think that?

00:13:51:13 - 00:14:06:08
Sarah
Just because that's how they've done it, that that's how you would do it. Men have been doing things a certain way all this time. And what if it didn't have to be like that for you?

00:14:06:11 - 00:14:33:20
Sarah
Oh, okay. So that just sort of kind of shook my thinking a little bit. And maybe though she was pretty articulate about women's issues and so forth at the time, it it was a real life application to me of, oh, oh, okay. I that's a table I can be at and and yeah, I don't have to ask that question too much.

00:14:34:19 - 00:14:57:19
Sarah
And well, what I just realized is I was saying that saying that out loud, I ultimately shifted over to being an entrepreneur and having, you know, a consulting business and coaching business. 35 years ago. And the irony is that I did spend a lot of time traveling, and I did miss a lot of things with my kids.

00:14:59:08 - 00:15:27:08
Sarah
And I think the difference is that I had conscious conversations with the kids about that. And I said, look, you know, I will never walk out that door only for money. I will only walk out the door if I know, or I'm confident I'll be walking back in with something that can benefit you all knowledge, experience, a connection, you know, an insight, a goofy story, whatever.

00:15:27:11 - 00:15:45:09
Sarah
But there there is something for all of us. Every time I walk out that door. And if you ever hear me complaining about walking out the door, here's your permission slip to to, you know, hit me with a wet noodle because that's that's not what I want.

00:15:45:11 - 00:16:13:10
Lisa
So I'm curious about this, right. Because you said that you saw the dean's role as like that was success, and then you looked at the college president role and you're like, oh, that's too much. Don't have the we'll call it work life balance. We know that doesn't really exist. We created ourselves. But you saw that is not what I'm hearing is you saw that not you saw that as not being the type of success you wanted, but you saw the dean's role as the type of success you wanted.

00:16:13:10 - 00:16:21:17
Lisa
But what was it specifically about that Dean's role that you were like that that embodies what success means to me?

00:16:22:10 - 00:16:33:09
Sarah
At the time, it was very clear to me the impact that this particular mentor was having on every student on that campus.

00:16:33:12 - 00:16:35:05
Lisa
Right. Okay.

00:16:35:08 - 00:16:47:08
Sarah
And she did. And she was loved and hated for it, but she had a huge power base and and role on the campus.

00:16:47:10 - 00:16:51:29
Lisa
Interesting. Okay. So success was defined as impact for you back then.

00:16:52:01 - 00:17:22:27
Sarah
Yeah. And certainly status and stature. And you know Dean sounds cool. Does so and and in my world at that time, I, I didn't know I grew up on a farm. I didn't know what a president of something was, really. I mean, the people that I knew that held big roles like that. And in hindsight, I mean, I would go to parties with the chairman of AT&T and the chairman of Southern Railway.

00:17:22:29 - 00:17:46:06
Sarah
I didn't know that that was just John to me. And he would bounce me on his knee and tell me to go bring him, you know, a fresh bourbon or something. And I was 5 or 6. I didn't, but I didn't know what he did for a living. I didn't know any of that. And so, yeah, so she, she kind of embodied something real and tangible to me.

00:17:46:25 - 00:18:12:07
Sarah
And having gone to a boarding school, we had Dean's there, too, and, you know, it just it was familiar. It it didn't feel like a stretch. Her comment about the college president thing kind of shifted the kaleidoscope a little bit. So I, I did start aspiring to maybe a college presidency or something like that after that. Not actively, but I didn't take it off the table.

00:18:12:07 - 00:18:18:19
Sarah
It, it felt like, oh, okay. If I want that when the time comes, we'll see. We'll see.

00:18:18:21 - 00:18:35:13
Lisa
Yeah. It sounds like it helped you redefine what success and leadership could be like, that you didn't have to do it somebody else's way. You could do it your way. So knowing that you're an achiever and I'm an achiever, we can get really caught in that trap of of chasing achievement. I'm sure you see this with your clients.

00:18:35:13 - 00:18:55:14
Lisa
I know I do. How did you evolve from being an achiever? So we still know you're achieving things, but to really living into the work of embodying the type of leadership you wanted to be, because I think there's a difference between chasing achievement versus embodied leadership.

00:18:55:17 - 00:19:11:12
Sarah
Yep. I don't know that I have thought about that on a timeline sort of thing.

00:19:11:14 - 00:19:47:12
Sarah
So there have been times in my life one was in the process of getting divorced, where the oh, shit, you better get on the stick kind of thing kicked in. And so having taken a little time away, I hung while I was coaching, and I had started my business and I was coaching and I was a faculty member for some, like, Myers-Briggs certification programs and some things like that, which took some doing and, you know, it was it was a cool thing to be doing.

00:19:47:14 - 00:20:14:15
Sarah
It wasn't full time. So it worked out great. I had three kids and I was homeschooling my kids, and then divorce rolls around and, at that point I started looking around at, okay, how do I maximize my experience and maximize my income? Because it's on me now. And it was, you know, very amicable and equitable and all that kind of stuff.

00:20:14:15 - 00:20:43:14
Sarah
But I wanted to stay in the house that we were in, and I didn't want the kids to be disrupted in that way. And I etc., etc.. So it it lit a fire, a different kind of fire under me to seek out the higher paying kinds of of gigs. And so. Yeah. So probably a moment of awareness.

00:20:43:16 - 00:21:14:08
Sarah
Okay. And it was sort of this punctuation thing, maybe the front end of this punctuation thing. I was at a, a seminar by some people that I really admired that were doing really high level work and was really intrigued. And I'm just embodying I'm just being myself. And I'm asking a lot of questions, and I'm in a room of like 50 really high level coaches and, and the, the main speaker, who was one of the partners of a company that I went on to work for, but he like, makes a beeline for me after the thing is over.

00:21:14:08 - 00:21:41:03
Sarah
And he's like, who are you? Why have we never met? Who are you? And I felt myself in that moment say aloud, well, you know, I'm just a coach here, just like everybody else. I'm probably in that high pitched little voice, too, right? And I see, you know what? I would now understand energetically, but I see, like these doors closing behind his eyes.

00:21:41:05 - 00:22:05:23
Sarah
And I had this internal moment of, oh, no, no, no, no big seller has got to show up. And I, you know, kind of gathered myself and said, and, you know, here's what I'm curious about in the world, and here's what I was grooving with, and you're talking and all this kind of stuff. And the lights came back on and, and I went on, I still do work for that company, you know, 20 years later.

00:22:06:23 - 00:22:25:25
Sarah
But it was it was a real moment of, okay, who are you going to be? What are you embodying here? Are you going to be, like, playing small and all that kind of stuff, or are you going to be who you really are? And and that was incredible to.

00:22:25:25 - 00:22:43:21
Lisa
Moment change things for you moving forward, like when you walked out of the room. Because I believe those moments, like they don't just change us in the moment. They like create this colossal ripple that transforms us for the future. So what did that what did that really change for you?

00:22:43:23 - 00:23:28:26
Sarah
Not unlike the moment about why not college president? It was it was a moment of, oh, somebody who was like very established and very elite in this field, see something new and fresh in me. And because not because I made some shit up, because that's I showed up. What becomes available when I show up. And that and the process of going through my divorce that had led up to that was a real cornerstone of my coaching for years, which was having unveiled myself, I can spot a faker.

00:23:28:29 - 00:24:02:25
Sarah
You know, I was a faker for years. Which isn't to say that I didn't love my first husband at one time and I didn't enjoy our life. It's not it wasn't that per se, but I wasn't fully present and all. With that. I spent a lot of time making things look perfect from some hallmark kind of way. And so between peeling that off and then showing up in that moment, it's like, okay, this is really this is really important.

00:24:02:28 - 00:24:32:23
Sarah
When I show up, good things happen. So what's available when I start doing that? More and more and more. And so fast forward, you know, 20 plus years coming into Lipton's community was another of those moments because, I mean, I've been doing coaching for, I don't know, 25, 28 years at that point. And I didn't know that most people don't make a career out of this.

00:24:32:25 - 00:24:54:26
Sarah
I mean, I just didn't know because like I say, I run with the fast crowd. I was one of the lowest paid people in my community. And so I, I didn't know, and I'm glad I didn't know. Right. So, I walk into the door of one of his events and, and he makes some big proclamation of the statistics.

00:24:54:26 - 00:25:28:01
Sarah
And I'm looking around when. Wait, what? And, you know, and the people who do make it never make more than. Yeah, rarely make more than $50,000 a year. I'm on. Wait, what, what and the and various people in the room who were highly successful didn't use psychological assessments and didn't walk in with, like, an engineering level degree.

00:25:28:03 - 00:25:51:22
Sarah
For sure. Yeah. And so, you know, here I was for all these years, walking in with data and reams of it to go over with my and most of my clients happened to be engineers, and they wanted that kind of data or I thought they did. And to see this whole room full of people who were doing it the way they wanted.

00:25:51:25 - 00:26:16:21
Sarah
And so what felt new to me, 28 years prior now felt kind of static. And I walk into the legend community. It's like, oh, there's a whole nother there's a whole nother room full of people doing things completely different. And so that's been my journey of late, is embodying in a whole new way, like, yeah, I can collect data if you want.

00:26:16:23 - 00:26:46:04
Sarah
And also we don't absolutely need that. You know what? What happens when when we release the need for that kind of data and just go with what's present and what is embodied in you and embodied in me and what what gets available. So yeah. So those are, as I think back, some pivotal milestones of the layers of embodiment that I'm continuing to step into.

00:26:46:04 - 00:26:48:00
Sarah
And I'm sure there's more, you know.

00:26:48:02 - 00:27:05:25
Lisa
Well, it never ends right? Until we die. Right. Just a game we're playing with ourselves and until we leave the planet. I love that you said you know how to spot a faker, because I think that that happens for most people, right? We put on all these layers. I use the friends analogy. When Joey Tribbiani was wearing all of Chandler's clothes.

00:27:05:27 - 00:27:21:12
Lisa
That's how we go through life. We put on everybody else's stuff, their expectations or, you know, all the things I need to be a perfectionist. I need to have control. And then slowly we start to peel, you know, we we start to peel these off so that we can really be who we are. And that's when we deeply connect.

00:27:21:15 - 00:27:41:10
Lisa
So people who I love, people who love data. I've never been a data person, but I understand where it comes from. And we do need data, but it's so powerful when we get those over thinkers and the left brainers to put down their data. And, dive into their intuition, which I know is something that you talk about.

00:27:41:17 - 00:28:05:11
Lisa
But before we get to that, I wanted to know when you were homeschooling your kids, going through divorce, growing your business, what kind of price did that come with for you? Because these are the moments that, you know, they kind of define us. They show us who who we are, and they also show us all the things that we aren't yet to let go of.

00:28:05:11 - 00:28:22:02
Lisa
And there's no person that I've ever talked to on the path to success with whatever that means for you that hasn't paid a big price in order to get there. So I'd be curious to know, what are some of the prices you've had to pay on your road to creating the successful career you have?

00:28:22:04 - 00:28:41:07
Sarah
Yeah. Well, The price of divorce was losing an entire group of people who I thought were my best friends.

00:28:41:10 - 00:28:50:15
Sarah
People who I trusted, people who I talked with 2 or 3 times a day, you know, and.

00:28:50:18 - 00:29:17:09
Sarah
Who encouraged me? One in particular, who encouraged me to follow this path of what would it mean to step away from this marriage? You know, who who said things to me like love is expansive, Sarah, you know when when you and Tom separate and you each find whatever is next. That's more people to love your children and more people for your children to love.

00:29:17:09 - 00:29:48:26
Sarah
It's not it's not constrictive, is expansive. All of which gave me enormous comfort and insight as I was going down a path of essentially blowing up what looked like a perfect family to everybody else. So having those people, like, completely and I don't mean just like, oh, you know, I'm sad and I it's just hard to be together.

00:29:48:29 - 00:30:23:02
Sarah
I mean, like, come after me, like, like send letters to my church saying I'm no longer a worthy leader in my church. You know, having birthday parties for my children to which I was not invited. I mean, just like, mean shit, just really awful things. And losing my marriage was a walk in the park compared to that. I mean, in addition to whatever meanness in the moment, just the complete sense of betrayal.

00:30:23:02 - 00:30:43:08
Sarah
And who do I trust? Who can I trust, can I trust myself to decide who I can trust? Because I thought these people were my ride or dies for the rest of our lives. And and not only did they just walk away, they tried to dig me a hole and and shove me in it and tamp me down.

00:30:43:08 - 00:31:31:15
Sarah
You know? So that was really scary and and really hard. And the thing I think that saved me in that was the profound sense, with all respect to my ex-husband, the profound relief I felt from being out from under that relationship. So it kind of balanced each other out in that way, you know? I mean, I had suffered with back pain and all kinds of stuff for years, and it was gone once that relationship ended, a lot of things that I literally had been carrying, when I put them down, I physically was feeling better than I'd felt in a really long time.

00:31:31:15 - 00:31:58:02
Sarah
But emotionally, that betrayal, betrayal of my church, betrayal of my friends, you know, my family came through in ways that I didn't expect in beautiful, beautiful ways. I in my twisted little brain, I was sure they were going to pick him and not me. And they didn't. And and their profound support and insight. It was a 20 year marriage.

00:31:58:05 - 00:32:15:09
Sarah
So they're they're commentary like. Yeah, we were just kind of waiting for you to figure it out. You know, you acted like you were happy and we went along with it, but we never could quite understand. That was all enormously useful.

00:32:15:11 - 00:32:32:22
Lisa
There's always gifts on the other side of the mass, but when you're in the mess, sometimes it's hard to find the gifts. And, I left. I left my first marriage to. It looked really good from the outset. He's a good man. It just it wasn't a good fit for me, but it was hard to leave. But I've also been through, you know, deep betrayal.

00:32:32:28 - 00:32:55:20
Lisa
And I know the impact that that has on, you know, people think it's about the trust in other people. But when you are betrayed by people that you love, what it really erodes is your own self-trust. So I'd love to hear. How did you find your way back to trusting yourself again? Because as a mom, as an entrepreneur, self-trust is one of our greatest strengths.

00:32:55:20 - 00:33:08:06
Lisa
Like, we need to have it. We need to believe in ourselves. We need to trust that we can figure things out. So how did you move through that? To find your way back to self-trust and back into your own personal power?

00:33:08:08 - 00:33:10:20
Sarah
Lots of therapy.

00:33:10:22 - 00:33:12:29
Lisa
Amen to that.

00:33:13:01 - 00:33:43:19
Sarah
Yeah. I mean, I guess, I mean, this chapter came later, Brené Brown's work, but Rising Strong, I think is one of the best, processes out there for for rewriting your story. And really examining what was really going on and what what's the story you told yourself about it, and what is a brave new ending that you're willing to write about it?

00:33:43:21 - 00:34:21:01
Sarah
But I discovered that much later. Therapy literally is what helped me see that. What what happened had very little to do with me. Yeah. You know, they're they're craziness and they're they're shenanigans. We're all about them and what they were scared of and what how confronting it was to them to have someone actually stand up and get real and they couldn't handle it.

00:34:21:04 - 00:34:49:24
Sarah
And to the degree that I have windows on their lives now, they still can't handle it. So so, you know, my son, who was 13 when his father and I separated and 15 at the time of the story, we were at the beach and, taking a walk together and he said, you know, I never thought I'd say I was glad that you and dad split up.

00:34:49:26 - 00:35:10:21
Sarah
And I'm walking along thinking, you know, like what's about to happen here? And he said, you know, we were in danger of becoming the perfect family. And when you decided to get real, I got I still get choked up telling the story. When you decided to get real, you made it possible for the rest of us to get real.

00:35:10:21 - 00:35:13:22
Sarah
And I don't know if we'll ever be able. Thank you for that.

00:35:13:24 - 00:35:15:12
Lisa
It's really beautiful.

00:35:15:14 - 00:35:43:27
Sarah
Yeah. I mean, so, yeah, between things like that, a whole nother set of friends stepped up that who I considered friends, but not like my inner circle. And, you know, they they were amazing. Are amazing. You know, still in touch with some of them, others, you know, a loving distance for no good reason other than just life moves on.

00:35:45:00 - 00:35:56:05
Sarah
But I'll never forget the ways that some people who saw, who really saw me stepped up and said, we got your back.

00:35:56:07 - 00:36:15:14
Lisa
Yeah, it's always amazing when things like that happen. You really find out who are your people and who aren't and exactly. It's a great, purge. It's a great purge in life. I learned a lot through through what I went through around, the relationships that I built, because I had very complicated relationships with women in the past.

00:36:15:14 - 00:36:36:22
Lisa
And when stuff blew up in my life, I was so pleasantly surprised to realize that I had very strong women around me who had my back, and there was no judgment from them, and I was ready to be judged. Yeah, I was prepared to be judged. And I love what your son said. I've had a similar conversation with my oldest, you know, the guilt over breaking up their family.

00:36:36:22 - 00:36:56:26
Lisa
And I remember when he looked at me and he said, you know, I'm our lives really worked out for the best. He got a new little brother. He's got a stepdad that he loves like, but it was it was such a moment of like forgiveness, acceptance like that, that I'd walked the right path because it was a very hard decision also to leave my marriage.

00:36:56:26 - 00:37:16:05
Lisa
Like, it just it didn't make sense to most people from the outside looking in. So and there was one other thing that you said, that I thought that was really important. And this relates back to some of the work that I do, is our bodies are always talking to us. I think our bodies hold the deepest amount of wisdom, which you know, right.

00:37:16:08 - 00:37:40:06
Lisa
And we often don't look at how often we are betraying our bodies. When things like this are going on, our bodies are talking to us. We're betraying our bodies, yet we're looking at our body as betraying us. Why are my knees? Or why are my this off? Why is this happening? And that is a big that is also a big cost that a lot of people pay moving through changes in their lives and with success.

00:37:40:14 - 00:37:51:02
Lisa
They're, you know, they're literally abandoning their bodies when their body is trying to support them to the best of its ability. We just, you know, don't want to listen to the messages.

00:37:51:05 - 00:38:27:10
Sarah
Exactly, exactly. In fact, that's some of the work that I do now. And, and I can share the story because the person I was working with wrote a testimonial on my website about it. But when I met her, she had stage four cancer, and her goal of our coaching together was to essentially live. That was in April, to live until October, when her first grandchild was born and through the process, and she you know, I would never say abandon Western Western medicine in any way.

00:38:27:16 - 00:38:57:16
Sarah
So she continued with, with whatever medicines and treatments she was having, although they were kind of saying, there's not a whole lot else we can do. We entered into a conversation with the cancer and with the tumors and, and that very pivot that you pointed to, you know, I because she had a whole lot of other medical things leading up to this and she's like, you know, I just can't understand why my body's so weak.

00:38:57:16 - 00:39:24:20
Sarah
And I just, you know, all these things keep happening and, you know, my body is betraying me and so forth and so on, and I and I and it was a guided, a channeled statement to her. I can't claim that I'm this wise on my own. She's I said, so if you saw a Sherman tank in a parade that had some dings and bangs and dents in it, from the artillery, from the enemy that had been fired on it, but it's still rolling.

00:39:24:22 - 00:39:43:16
Sarah
Would you say that that tank had betrayed its its purpose? And and she just was like, what had I said? You can look at the ways that you've been sick. You can also look at the fact that you're still frickin here.

00:39:43:18 - 00:39:44:14
Lisa
You know.

00:39:44:16 - 00:40:10:02
Sarah
What? What is the message? What would it be like to treat your body like your hero instead of your villain? And it just changed everything. And that was four years ago. She's cancer free, I love it. She. You know, I mean, just one thing after another. And, And it's just a miracle.

00:40:10:05 - 00:40:34:12
Lisa
Such a powerful metaphor. Because I do believe whether, you know, when you're listening, you don't have to agree with me. But I believe that the root cause of most of our illnesses start between our ears and the thoughts and feelings that we carry about ourselves. Most people have a very toxic relationship with their body, and then they blame their body for being the problem, not even wanting to look at, well, what's your role and responsibility in this?

00:40:34:12 - 00:40:58:26
Lisa
Because if you are talking to your children the way you talk to yourself, you would probably go to jail. So I love that that you're diving into that work because it is it's such a, you know, our health, our well-being is such a big part of being a leader. The thing that you, in my opinion, need to be most responsible for is the relationship you have with yourself.

00:40:58:26 - 00:41:21:24
Lisa
How can you lead other people powerfully if you're not willing to show up and be responsible for how you're leading yourself? It sounds like this has been your whole life journey is how do you continue to come back to who Sarah is without all the crap? So in asking that, I'm really curious to know with all the leaders that you work with, what does success cost?

00:41:21:24 - 00:41:36:17
Lisa
Most of them that, that and that they're not talking about? Like, what is the big the biggest cost that successful leaders are paying, but they're not talking about enough.

00:41:46:11 - 00:42:11:15
Sarah
I would say for many, for many, I don't know about most, but for many it is it's a self-trust piece. So and I and I say many because I would separate out founders and entrepreneurs and starters from corporate people who have risen up through a corporate structure.

00:42:11:17 - 00:42:14:24
Lisa
Oh, interesting. I'd like to know more about that.

00:42:14:26 - 00:42:28:27
Sarah
Well, people who rise up through a corporate structure not dissimilar to people who rise up through the military. There is a hierarchy. And so part of your early career, you learn to not trust yourself and just do what you're told.

00:42:29:03 - 00:42:30:18
Lisa
Okay.

00:42:30:20 - 00:42:57:29
Sarah
And so part of my work with senior leaders is helping them make that pivot and turn that switch. You know, you have become them now. So, so how are you trusting yourself? What have you learned from trusting other people? What was the wisdom that worked? And what is your unique wisdom that you are now bringing into leading tens of thousands of people?

00:42:58:01 - 00:43:41:00
Sarah
And and how does that work? In my experience, entrepreneurs, that's their their pivot often is learning to trust other people enough to let go. In order to scale their business. You got to trust a few other people. Yes. You're brilliant. Yes, the trust you have held in yourself and your your capacity to stay on task and stay on vision has grown this business to a degree, and now your developmental task is hanging on to your vision, but also trusting other people to carry it to a broader scale.

00:43:41:00 - 00:44:05:00
Sarah
If that's what you want. And that's why so many founders and starters are serial founders and starters, because there comes a point that it's just it's too hard. And they have another cool idea. And that's great. You know, so my role with those kinds of folks isn't, you know, be a better leader, learn how to trust and scale.

00:44:05:00 - 00:44:20:00
Sarah
It's be the leader you want to be. What is it the do you want to make this pivot or do you are. The other idea is so tantalizing that you're ready to sell this and go on to something else. There's no right or wrong about any of it. Just be clear.

00:44:20:03 - 00:44:46:24
Lisa
There's so much chasing achievement as well, because people are trapped in the belief they don't even they don't even realize it, that they're, you know, they're chasing approval from other people. They're trying to continue to create safety in themselves. If I do it all myself, then I won't get hurt. I won't get let down. Like there's there's so many layers to what it looks like to be in this place of self trust.

00:44:46:24 - 00:45:10:22
Sarah
And yeah, and people think falsely, that a corporate career is safer than an entrepreneurial career. Yeah. And that's I mean, you and I both know that's malarkey. I mean people get riffed. I mean, look at what's happening in the US government right now. You know, government jobs get yourself a government job. You'll be safe. You know, not so much.

00:45:10:24 - 00:45:30:17
Lisa
Yeah. You know, I believe that the real work is is recognizing that safety isn't an outside job. It's how you feel on the inside. Like you create your safety. No circumstance creates your safety. So yes, we want safe circumstances. But ultimately, at the end of the day, it's it's how you're feeling about how you're defining safety, even freedom.

00:45:30:17 - 00:45:51:23
Lisa
Right? I learned I mean, during the Covid years, I had a lot of hard lessons around freedom and what freedom really was. And, I had to redefine I had to redefine it and look at where I was looking at freedom as being something outside of me versus my ability to stay grounded in myself and choose whatever that may be.

00:45:51:26 - 00:45:56:04
Lisa
It was really, really fascinating times.

00:45:56:06 - 00:46:17:07
Sarah
Yeah, yeah. You carry you carry your safety with you. That's so hard. You know, I mean, it shows up in the, the litvin community and, and Rich has made, I think, a really beautiful language pivot from and probably he said it in Santa Fe. This is not a safe place. This is a brave place.

00:46:17:09 - 00:46:47:07
Lisa
I love that. I love that because I'm noticing that there's a lot of places online. I'm like, when did everybody become so fragile? When did everybody become so fragile? When did we stop learning or being able to hold polarity? When did we stop understanding that multiple things can be true at the same time, and we actually have the capacity to hold both and and that's, you know, this is this is what I want my people into.

00:46:47:09 - 00:46:58:22
Lisa
It's not black and white. There's no right or wrong. There's there is no safe or unsafe. It's it's it all starts with it all starts with you. So so so fascinating.

00:46:58:24 - 00:47:03:28
Sarah
Yeah. And there is no threat embedded in a difference of opinion.

00:47:04:00 - 00:47:12:21
Lisa
No, none at all. I think the world is forgotten that right now. But hopefully we'll find our way. Hopefully we'll find our way back. Okay, so.

00:47:12:21 - 00:47:14:10
Sarah
The God's yours.

00:47:14:12 - 00:47:35:07
Lisa
Right? This is my hope. I keep speaking out about it, whether or not anybody's listening, I don't know, but I'll just keep doing my thing. So. All right, so let's come back to success. So we talked about how you define success when you were younger, when you were looking at that Dean's position like, oh, holy grail, that that's going to be that's going to be what I make it.

00:47:35:09 - 00:47:42:22
Lisa
You've been in your field for decades now. How would you define success today?

00:47:42:24 - 00:48:19:18
Sarah
Well, Yeah. I don't even know that I would really interesting. I mean, I guess maybe my definition of success is not needing a definition of success. You know, if the coffee is hot and the and the flowers are blooming and the phone's ringing and it's. And I'm interested in what I'm doing, and I've got enough money to, you know, as we used to say in the old days, cover my not, you know, it's like, yeah.

00:48:19:18 - 00:48:46:13
Sarah
I mean, and it's not that I don't aspire to impact, and to to scale and to, you know, be having a wider audience because I do. But I don't. Let me back up. My experience with success goalposts is that most of us keep moving them.

00:48:46:15 - 00:48:47:11
Lisa
Right.

00:48:47:13 - 00:49:22:23
Sarah
So that we never actually experience what success feels like. So my journey and this, in these moments right now, you know, ask me again is six months. Who knows what I'll say. But in these moments right now, it really is. Are you present? You know, are you are you are you able to just be with Lisa in this moment and these questions in this fascinating conversation, you know, without worrying like, okay, how wide is her audience and is this going to happen or that going to happen?

00:49:22:23 - 00:49:59:01
Sarah
And, you know, no, and so my intuitive energetic knowing and I think from what you just said a minute ago, I know you get this, is that this whole notion of. Needing. Needing proof of my impact. Is a fool's errand. Humans are terrible judges of our own impact. We are terrible judges on both sides of the equation.

00:49:59:03 - 00:50:22:10
Sarah
Sometimes we think we are God's gift and. And we, you know. Yeah, it was okay, but nothing really changed. And other times, we are oblivious to the fact that just walking in a room and thanking somebody for serving you well at a coffee shop changes somebody's day and changes somebody that then bleeds on to the rest of their life.

00:50:22:12 - 00:50:52:15
Sarah
I mean, gosh, you've seen a million movies about it, right? And so my definition of the success I carry with me, like, my safety and, and like love and other things is, am I present with myself? Am I, am I like, vibrating at the level that I know transmits beautiful.

00:50:52:17 - 00:51:00:08
Lisa
I feel like that. I believe that success isn't a destination. I think that when we're younger, we think it's a place to get to.

00:51:00:11 - 00:51:01:01
Sarah
Yeah.

00:51:01:03 - 00:51:22:11
Lisa
And as we get older, you recognize that success isn't. It's not around the next goalpost. It's it's a feeling you can choose to claim in any moment. And it can look however you want it. And, to me, success really comes when you stop. Your life is no longer live from trying to get away from pain. You're actually moving towards pleasure.

00:51:22:11 - 00:51:46:20
Lisa
Like what makes me feel good. And because nobody's going to show up at your doorstep and measure your level of success, like, how do we even measure that? What's my level of success versus somebody else? Like it's irrelevant. We don't even have a way to measure it yet. It's something that so many of us and so many leaders are chasing, recognizing, not even recognizing that they're robbing themselves of the beautiful life that they've built because it's already there.

00:51:46:20 - 00:51:48:11
Lisa
It's already right in front of them.

00:51:48:13 - 00:52:16:18
Sarah
Exactly. So there's a there's a tarot card I think it's the Five of Cups. Maybe where the person, the character in the card is looking at three cups that are turned over and spilled onto the ground and two, four cups are right behind them. And it's like, where is your attention when you know, are you going to focus on what's not working and or what?

00:52:16:20 - 00:52:48:12
Sarah
What's the next? What's the next milestone that I haven't yet reached? Or are you going to turn around and recognize that sustenance and and success and and a filled cup is right there, like right there, right there all the time. And it's the human experience to chase and to wonder and all those things. So, you know, I don't want to bypass any of that or act like, oh, if you don't get this, you're not, you know, enlightened or something.

00:52:48:15 - 00:53:14:02
Sarah
All of it, all of it's fine. Nothing's broken. And like I say, I loved you're much more eloquent definition, you know. But again, ask me in six months and I may say, you know, that I'm spending more time with my grandchildren, or that I've written a book or that I, you know, I don't know, but in this moment, you know, as we discussed before, we came on, on Mike, you know, kind of after some medical stuff and this and that.

00:53:14:05 - 00:53:43:15
Sarah
I'm just enjoying feeling great and I'm enjoying what becomes possible from the space of, you know, my body and me being in really good communication right now. And and how does that impact when I show up with the client? Am I better able to mirror and experience and intuit what's going on with them using this incredible machine that I have walking around with me on this journey?

00:53:43:18 - 00:54:06:19
Lisa
So speaking my love language, Sarah, you're speaking my love language. So I feel like your work and this conversation is such a reminder that leadership isn't about having it all figured out. It's about having the courage to tell ourselves the truth. And if you're not willing to tell yourself the truth, get a coach who can help you see the truth.

00:54:06:21 - 00:54:30:11
Lisa
You really embody this beautiful paradox strength without the armor, authority without the ego, and I find that that's rare. So I really enjoyed this conversation. So before we close, I would love for you to share about the work because you've got something. Backbone. This is a new program that you've built out. I would love for you to share what's inspired it and how people can connect with you in your work.

00:54:30:13 - 00:55:00:24
Sarah
Beautiful. Yeah. And building out, so yeah, over the course of my career. And there's also some research about this too, that the thing that leaders will say and, and organizations, people in organizations will say is most needed is courageous conversations that people leaders are scared to have courageous conversations. So there's that background in the climate that we're living in right now.

00:55:00:24 - 00:55:29:20
Sarah
People are scared and and they're not speaking up very often. And so while I see what happens in businesses as a result of not having courageous conversations, I'm also in rooms with coaches who are, in my view, using sort of a bastardized version of neutrality, as well. You know, I'm a coach, I'm not allowed to have an opinion.

00:55:29:20 - 00:56:00:14
Sarah
I'm a coach. I'm not allowed to speak my truth. You know, that's not my job. When I'm coaching. And this is I know I put a hard no on that. I'm not remotely suggesting as a coach that you ever tell someone what to do, but in order to be a powerful coach, I believe fully we need to be showing up in our courage, in our truth and as you pointed out, there can be multiple truths in the room at the same time.

00:56:00:14 - 00:56:32:24
Sarah
And can we demonstrate and hold space that there's no threat here, there's only expansion, there's only understanding. And, and, you know, growth here. And to the degree that coaches aren't showing up with backbone, we're missing an opportunity for them. You know, it's a cycle, right, for leaders to show up with backbone etc., etc.. So my vision that I'm working on right now is, is a two pronged program, one for business leaders, one for coaches.

00:56:32:26 - 00:57:06:25
Sarah
And it's about leading with backbone with a capstone experience where we all come together, probably here at my farm, depending on how many people are involved, it might need to be someplace more expansive. But coming together to have real conversations in the climate we're in right now, how do we show up courageously with the impact that we want, with the capacity to look our children and grandchildren in the eye and say, I showed up in in this time, I did what I thought was the right thing to do.

00:57:06:27 - 00:57:27:04
Sarah
And it's not I mean, I know how I feel politically, but it's not. It's not about that, but it's about, are we asking the right questions? Are we getting the right data? You know, I think facts are few and far between. And are you asking the right questions to make sure that the facts you're making decisions on are real?

00:57:28:00 - 00:57:39:14
Sarah
So yeah. So that's what I'm working out. Watch the space. That's a great it'll be, you know, on LinkedIn and on my website when it's ready to launch. And I'm hoping before the end of the year.

00:57:39:14 - 00:57:59:10
Lisa
But I think that's very exciting for you. I, I have always led my clients by allowing them to see the deep inner workings of me, because I think that that's such a big part of it's a big part of my leadership. I understand that not everybody is is that comfortable with it, and it's some it's skills that other coaches need to learn.

00:57:59:13 - 00:58:26:20
Lisa
But I think it's so powerful when my clients can see the things that I'm also going through. No holds barred. Yeah. And, you know, I think the power of story is so important. And then just coming back to, you know, bridging these conversations where people are maybe on the opposite sides of the spectrum is can we even just start asking questions to better understand somebody's perspective?

00:58:26:22 - 00:58:54:21
Lisa
Right. Because it's not even necessarily about the facts per se. But what are the values driving you like, help me understand why you see things this way. We can learn so much more about people because everybody has their own unique set of values. Their unique frame of reality, their, you know, and if we could just try to understand, I think it would open the door to so much more compassion for both sides.

00:58:54:23 - 00:59:02:29
Lisa
We can only, you know, from from my mouth to God's ears again, we'll see what happens. So where can people find you, Sarah?

00:59:03:12 - 00:59:06:07
Sarah
At Sarah C albritton.com.

00:59:06:09 - 00:59:15:21
Lisa
Right. We will put all of this in the show notes so everybody can cruise over and check you out. We'll put all your social media links as well. I'm sure your LinkedIn.

00:59:15:23 - 00:59:20:11
Sarah
You know, Instagram and LinkedIn is Sarah Silver. So it's all it's all the same.

00:59:20:14 - 00:59:26:29
Lisa
Well, thank you so much for taking the time to have the conversation with me today. Sarah. I so enjoyed spending this time with you.

00:59:27:02 - 00:59:27:21
Sarah
Me too.

00:59:27:27 - 00:59:50:07
Speaker 1
So here's what I want you to take from this conversation with Sarah. Playing small isn't protecting you. Making things look perfect isn't keeping you safe. In fact, it's costing you everything. Your energy, your presence. The ability to actually feel the success you've built. And your body is keeping score. Sarah spent years making everything look perfect on the outside while carrying chronic back pain.

00:59:50:08 - 01:00:13:00
Speaker 1
You're saying I'm just. When people recognized her power, you're shrinking herself. So other would. The others would feel comfortable. And the pain didn't go away until she finally got real. If you heard yourself in Sarah's story, that's your body trying to tell you something. The exhaustion you can't shake. The way you collapse into bed but can't sleep. The snapping at people you love.

01:00:13:02 - 01:00:41:02
Speaker 1
The numbing with food or wine or scrolling. The chronic pain you can't explain. That's not your body betraying you. That's your body being your hero. Screaming what you won't say out loud. You're playing smaller than you're capable of. And you know it. And it's time to stop the congruency audit is a free 15 minute call where we look at the gap between the success you've built on the outside and what you're actually feeling on the inside.

01:00:41:05 - 01:00:57:10
Speaker 1
Will identify exactly where you're playing small, what it's costing you, and what it's going to take for you to finally show up as big as you actually are. This isn't about adding more strategies to optimize the version of yourself you built to survive. This is about getting

01:00:57:10 - 01:01:05:01
Speaker 1
real, about treating your body like your hero instead of your villain, about creating success that doesn't just look good.

01:01:05:04 - 01:01:30:14
Speaker 1
It finally feels right. Stop waiting for permission. Stop shrinking yourself. Stop making things look perfect when you know you're capable of so much more. Book your concurrency audit at Lisa Carpenter, aka Forward slash audit, because the life you've built doesn't just need to look impressive. It needs to feel congruent. I'll catch you on the next episode.