EPISODE 269: How To Create Lasting Body Image Shifts with Ashley Soro

00;00;01;22 - 00;00;27;13
Lisa
Welcome to the Full Frontal Living podcast. I'm Lisa Carpenter, master life coach to driven, ambitious humans who want more out of life without having to sacrifice themselves to achieve it. I'll share how it's possible to slow down. Take better care of yourself. Find more peace and ease. Create sustainable energy. Stop procrastination and overwhelm and fall in love with your life, your business and your body.

00;00;27;16 - 00;00;45;26
Lisa
This podcast is for you if you're ready to learn what it takes to thrive as a high performer, do less, but achieve more. Make you and your well-being a top priority, and create your extraordinary life. I'm so glad you're here.

00;00;45;29 - 00;01;10;19
Lisa
Hey. Hey, everybody. Thanks for joining us for another episode of the Full Frontal Living podcast. I have brought a guest on with me today, a lady by the name of Ashley Soro, who I actually met in Las Vegas in 2021. I think it was post post-Covid, but still in the weirdness of Covid, where people were wearing like mesh masks in Vegas with rhinestones on them, thinking that was going to help things, I digress.

00;01;10;20 - 00;01;31;08
Lisa
Anyways, Ashley was a fellow competitor, and I was just really drawn to your energy when we were in Vegas. Like I said before we started, I have a few years on you. And I've been following her journey on Instagram because I always love watching people. I love watching people wake up to their own bullshit, to be quite frank.

00;01;31;10 - 00;01;57;29
Lisa
And this is what I was witnessing on your Instagram feed. So we're going to talk about all things, body transformation. Women's relationships with their bodies will probably talk about competing a little bit, but we just had a conversation that I want to kind of have, live here. And, but before we dive into all of that, Ashley, can you let everybody know who you are, how you serve people in the world and anything else you want to share about yourself?

00;01;58;01 - 00;02;25;01
Ashley
Absolutely. First, thank you for having me. I was so excited when you messaged me, because it had been quite some time that we had talked and things had changed so much for the better. But I am a women's transformational coach. I was very deep in the fitness and nutrition space, and I just felt like there was something more like I was here to facilitate deeper transformations within the subconscious of clearing blocks.

00;02;25;03 - 00;02;46;17
Ashley
And so much of that came from my journey. I, you know, you saw it in me. There was something that I knew that was there that I needed to uncover. And at the end of the day, it was facilitating my own healing. And so I had been hosting women's transformational retreats and bringing healers and facilitators, and I wanted to be able to do that as well.

00;02;46;19 - 00;03;11;20
Ashley
So while my coaching is overall wellness, I do tap into the subconscious, a lot of different techniques in terms of understanding how we can be in our energy more. So I work with a lot of empaths and people pleasers, recovering people pleasers, just really wanting to live life according to what we want out of it, being in alignment with who we really are.

00;03;11;23 - 00;03;23;09
Ashley
And the only way that I was going to be able to facilitate that in other people was by going through my own transformation and letting go of this old version of myself that really no longer served me right.

00;03;23;11 - 00;03;45;23
Lisa
So what caught my eye on Instagram was a post that you made. I've got it up on my other screen here. This post you made about going through what it was like for you to share the identity of being a competitor. So you and I both been on stage. We've both been competitive athletes, and both of us actually returned to the stage to try and feed that desire.

00;03;45;23 - 00;04;06;23
Lisa
Like, where do you take your competitiveness when you get older? Right. Because you were on the soccer pitch. I had been a dancer my whole life. You know, now at 51, I'm not doing pirouettes anymore. They make me dizzy. But where can I take, like, where can I take that and hone that competitiveness and put it back on stage now, because I've been around for a lot of years.

00;04;06;23 - 00;04;29;22
Lisa
I competed like way, way, way back in the day. I've watched so many women use competitive bodybuilding, fitness, figure whatever you want to call it, as a way to chase that feeling of being good enough, right? A feeling like they find like now I can love my body. So when I saw this Instagram post of yours, it was you.

00;04;29;22 - 00;04;53;21
Lisa
Looking back on these pictures of who you become, the box you put yourself in to fit in the sexualized version of yourself, which those shoots are fun and you know, they're kind of a theme in the fitness industry, which I don't really understand, maybe because I am older than most of the competitors. But I would love for you to share about your kind of transformation, of getting on stage.

00;04;53;21 - 00;05;05;11
Lisa
What kind of shook out for you from that, and how you what kind of what parts of your identity you needed to let go of to step into the work you're doing now because you've retired from competing? Correct. Yeah.

00;05;05;11 - 00;05;38;00
Ashley
Yeah. Well, you were talking about that, and I was thinking about the post, and I was thinking about the emotions that came up and you're talking. And I started to feel myself getting emotional. At the end of the day, I couldn't let go of this identity of being an athlete. But what drew me to fitness competitor, to being coming up fitness competitor was I saw a friend of mine who had always struggled with her confidence, and then she prepped for the show, and I saw her and she was like a different person.

00;05;38;02 - 00;05;59;18
Ashley
I thought to myself, oh my gosh, I want that for myself. And this was a year out of professional soccer. Oh, I had been going through this shift of who am I? I don't have my sport anymore. I was going through depression, but at that time I didn't have the conscious awareness to understand what I was really going through.

00;05;59;21 - 00;06;19;25
Ashley
What I didn't understand was that the achievement, the I need to achieve, I need to be the best I need to accomplish these things. That was never going to end because it was soccer for 20 plus years. Then it was, let's go get into the fitness competition space. And it was, what else can we do? What else can we do?

00;06;19;25 - 00;06;42;26
Ashley
What else can we do? Filling a void. Filling a void that was never going to be filled. You could throw three more sports in and I was still going to feel unfulfilled. And so being in the fitness competition space was a way for me to continue being an athlete, because that was, in essence, my identity. And it stemmed from the childhood.

00;06;42;28 - 00;07;22;12
Ashley
I was a great athlete, I was praise, it was like I was a prized possession. And so I wanted that level of accomplishment that came from I am good enough once I accomplish x, y, z. So getting into the fitness competition space was just morphing into this next version of myself, just searching for this accomplishment. But what ended up happening was I built up this level of confidence in my body when I was fit and when I was lean, and I felt great, and then off season would come and I would feel terrible in my skin.

00;07;22;14 - 00;07;44;23
Ashley
And it just brought up all of these emotions of how is it ever going to be enough, am I ever going to be enough? And I can't keep this body year round anyways, and I can't manage my stress. Because when you're prepping to lose weight every single week and you only feel good at that weight, it takes a toll on you.

00;07;44;24 - 00;08;17;11
Ashley
And so the being a competitor came with, I have to show up constantly. I have to be on top of my food constantly. It was everything that I was doing was never going to make me feel good. And when I did the shoots, feeling glammed up and feeling amazing in my skin, it was great. But then I would get out of the shoot or I would get a picture back and I wouldn't like the way that I looked and shoots that I was and were so hyper sexualized.

00;08;17;13 - 00;08;38;11
Ashley
And I remember at one point I was talking to my coach at the time, I had a coach that I was working with, and he was like, why don't I see this person on Instagram? Where is this person? And it was because I felt like I had to promote myself in this way for the credibility in the fitness space.

00;08;38;11 - 00;08;57;17
Ashley
And I know you felt the same way of we have to well, not necessarily to show up this way, but it's part of the package. It's like all the fitness models have the same style of shoots, but in the shoot I would feel so uncomfortable and I would think to myself, so I did this to be an athlete.

00;08;57;19 - 00;09;23;05
Ashley
Yet here I am in the space and I don't feel like one. I feel like I'm selling myself. And that's not to say the women that do the shoots have other motives. That's what it felt like for me. And so I thought, I'm doing this for the wrong reasons. This was, in essence, something that I was doing to continue this need to be an athlete.

00;09;23;07 - 00;09;47;07
Ashley
But I felt so far from that, even though everyone that would talk about being a competitor was okay. You get on stage, it's great, but the competitor is built in the day to day. The process, the grind, the challenge. And I love that part. That's what helped me feel like an athlete. But there was a fine line that I was on and I really lost myself in the process.

00;09;47;07 - 00;10;11;21
Ashley
And I look back at those pictures and I don't know who that person was. It was not me. It was needing the validation. Being so far outside of myself, recognizing that the moments where I felt that gut feeling of what am I doing, but telling myself, no, this is I just need to work hard and I just need to show up and and that I'm going to get that feeling, that feeling.

00;10;11;21 - 00;10;13;14
Ashley
I never came, right.

00;10;13;16 - 00;10;33;20
Lisa
And you know, what you said was really powerful because so many of my listeners and the clients that I work with, they have learned that their value and their worth is tied to their achievements. They've learned to seek external validation. And that's all about trying to fit in, make other people happy. And it's a real disconnect from who we are.

00;10;33;20 - 00;10;54;07
Lisa
So like I said, you, I don't have a problem with doing any type of photoshoot because I believe that all of us have this massive range of parts of who we are the sexy part, the athletic part, the smart part, the vulnerable part. But it's when you're doing that because you're trying to be something for somebody else that things go awry.

00;10;54;10 - 00;11;17;23
Lisa
And, you know, in in my years of competing and most of my life, almost all of the things that I had done and accomplished were in pursuit of being good enough, of making sure that I was valuable to other people, of making sure that I was worthy. It didn't matter how many certificates I had, it didn't matter how many shows I wanted, like it didn't matter what I accomplish.

00;11;17;23 - 00;11;40;11
Lisa
It was never enough anyways, right? So it's this forever chasing. And when I decided to go back on stage again for me, this time it was really about getting back into what's possible for me from a competitive place, but a very neutral place about my body. So neutral on the way up in neutral on the way down. But I'll share with you way back in the day.

00;11;40;14 - 00;12;00;11
Lisa
This is when an organization called so it was around, there was a show in Toronto, and I was a fitness competitor at the time, so we had to do like routines. So it was like a thing, right? I went out on stage, I forgot my routine halfway through. I was devastated, like all these different things happen. But I remember one show, we came off stage and then we went on a cruise.

00;12;00;18 - 00;12;26;27
Lisa
You know where this is going? A cruise ship for a week after being in a depleted state for 12 weeks, and back in the day, there was no reviving. There was no reverse dieting. It was like, high five. We did this thing, let's go eat. We literally walked off the cruise ship and our clothes didn't fit like nothing fit, because all of a sudden we loaded in all these calories because on a cruise ship they're like, what on trade do you want for dinner?

00;12;26;27 - 00;12;51;00
Lisa
Well, all of them, of course. Like, where's the bread? Bring the what? There's a midnight chocolate buffet. Sign me up. Unbelievable. It took me over a year to come back home to my body and feel at peace. Because I'd been in that, like, hyper lean place, right? That ideal place. And at the time, I was also a fitness trainer teaching nutrition.

00;12;51;04 - 00;13;30;00
Lisa
So it mess with me like mentally. And on the other side of that was like, okay, we see you need to learn how to be at a healthy place with your body and be neutral, whether it changes up or down or, you know, all that kind of stuff. So I love being an athlete, but it became become a very dangerous identity to be attached to because that identity goes away for any reason, whether you're retiring from a sport or you get injured, people end up not knowing who they are and they become depressed, anxious, all these things because they, they legit do not know who they are without that identity.

00;13;30;03 - 00;13;49;22
Lisa
And that's really what I've watched you do, is flip who you're being in the world and that identity so that you can still be an athlete, but you're redefining it now, and it'll continue to be redefined as you age and get older. At least that's been my experience, right? We always kind of come home to some of our because it's a it's a core value, right.

00;13;49;24 - 00;13;58;23
Lisa
But I would love to know more about what that letting go process look like for you, because I know it was a big transition for you to go through.

00;13;58;25 - 00;14;38;20
Ashley
A major transition. And I'm telling you right now, I took fitness out of my name on Instagram and it was like my world shattered. I was like, who am I? For a straight week? I felt like I lost who I was, you know? That was how the gravity of what that just that word meant. But it was also because it was letting go of not just the competitor, because at that point, I already knew that I didn't want to compete, and I was I vocalized that it was letting go of fitness coach because I wanted deeper transformations.

00;14;38;23 - 00;15;02;07
Ashley
Even though fitness is always going to be a piece, I didn't want to be tied to that anymore, because tying myself to the fitness piece was what kept me stuck for years. It was the achievement. It was what the achievement, what achievement meant being in that space. And so obviously it wasn't just taking the fitness out of my name.

00;15;02;07 - 00;15;28;04
Ashley
It was a long, drawn out process. But for me, it was deeply committing to a healing process that was talk therapy, breathwork sessions I started. I had always meditated, but I never really was meditating. Let's be real, 10 to 15 minutes I'm thinking about laundry. I'm like, gosh, when is this going to be over? That was the 2000 minutes meditated on my headspace app.

00;15;28;04 - 00;15;53;11
Ashley
It was not actual meditation. So once I was able to move a lot of energy in my body that was stuck for years from unprocessed trauma, I was able to sit in meditation and go within and sit with myself and actually spend time alone. And it didn't mean that I was isolating. It didn't mean that I was sitting in depression, because that's what it meant for me prior.

00;15;53;14 - 00;16;22;10
Ashley
If I stayed home alone in isolation, it was because I was depressed. Now I was staying home, not isolating. I was going within to understand why I was doing this, why I was seeking all of this external validation, why it was never enough, and I wanted to be able to facilitate that in my clients because I saw, you know, how it is in a lot of different industries.

00;16;22;11 - 00;16;45;04
Ashley
Let's be real, we want to build our business. You're going to show the highlight reel just like social media. We're going to show the highlight reel of the clients that kill it. But what about that large percentage of clients who stay stuck in those blocks? And it's not. They just don't want it bad enough because I knew what I was like.

00;16;45;07 - 00;17;07;29
Ashley
And unless I had that big scary goal over there, I wasn't staying on track with everything that I needed to because the healing was what I needed. I needed to go with it. I needed to find myself. And so when I went through that process, it opened up the doors. It opened up the doors to what I truly feel I'm here for.

00;17;07;29 - 00;17;22;26
Ashley
I knew that my purpose was to serve, but it was to serve on a much deeper, more profound level. And I knew that by staying in that identity within fitness, I wasn't going to tap into that deeper rooted work.

00;17;22;29 - 00;17;51;09
Lisa
Right? Because you can't outdo your identity like that's the reality. You cannot outdo your identity. You will do who you are being, being exactly like hard stop. So for years I coached around weight loss and nutrition, and I burnt that business down way, way long time ago. And like you, it's still a part of what I do because I can't talk about wellness without touching on, like, how you're fueling your body and your rest and absolutely your body.

00;17;51;09 - 00;18;12;24
Lisa
And those are some core values of mine. However, what I found and this really shows up a lot in the weight loss industry, and I think it shows up with competitors as well. It's the same story. It's just painted with a different brush. It's exactly the same. They're attached to that identity of constantly being in the drama, the struggle cycle.

00;18;12;24 - 00;18;32;06
Lisa
I call it like the suffering cycle, because part of their identity is somebody who overcomes suffering. But if you're somebody who constantly is overcoming suffering, you must always then create suffering. So even if you get on stage and look your best, you're going to make sure you create suffering again, so that the only way to fix is to go back on stage.

00;18;32;09 - 00;18;56;13
Lisa
Even if you lose weight, if you're an average Joe and you lose weight, you're never going to keep it off because you only know how to lose weight and take care of yourself from that place of struggling and trying to get away from what you don't like. And so many people don't get this. So I realized in my business that I was trying to save people who were more committed to drowning.

00;18;56;15 - 00;19;24;15
Lisa
They weren't interested in actually doing the work that needed to be done to create profound and lasting change. So, you know, I've never it's funny when I post, when I do post fitness stuff on my Instagram, which is, you know, few and far between. I do it intentionally because I see more people leave, because so many women are even triggered by that, that you can have multiple ranges of like of who you are.

00;19;24;21 - 00;19;40;11
Lisa
So I love for you to talk about kind of the how your healing journey, how that is translated into the work you're doing now with women because you were doing personal training. I don't know if you still do that or not, which is part of it. Right? As a personal trainer, we're also like therapists, coaches, the whole nine yards.

00;19;40;13 - 00;19;44;16
Ashley
Oh yeah. They say it all the time too. You're like my therapist.

00;19;44;18 - 00;19;56;10
Lisa
Right? So how are you now helping women understand that it's their identity that needs to shift and how they think and feel about their body. So let's talk about that.

00;19;56;13 - 00;20;18;17
Ashley
Oh, I love this. I mean, when I committed to the work, I had no idea that that my life was going to feel like it was crumbling, like it was falling apart because I started looking at my life with such a different lens. And while I knew, again, we know the importance of fitness and we're going to ask, what are you doing on a day to day basis?

00;20;18;17 - 00;20;49;14
Ashley
How can we incorporate more exercise that you actually enjoy? How can we make this about bringing more joy into your life, taking away from that struggle that you were talking about? Well, being able to discern these different cycles in these patterns that we run into are we recreate unknowingly. We have to become more conscious and aware. So when I started to recreate a new program, I thought to myself, well, what did I do that really, really sparked these changes within myself?

00;20;49;17 - 00;21;19;03
Ashley
And how can I translate that for my clients who are looking for an overall well-rounded wellness program? Because, again, I was tired of talking about the split squats, the rep ranges, and the specific macros because I didn't cut it for me. Right? So while I recommend my clients if they are dealing with a lot of unprocessed trauma emotions, if they're talking about anger and frustration built up anger.

00;21;19;03 - 00;21;41;25
Ashley
Frustration, a lot of recovering people pleasers, carry a lot of resentment. And that's why a lot of women have chronic pain, lower back pain, pain in their in their shoulders, tightness in the chest. So much of that comes from these emotions that are stuck in the body that we never move from. So I will recommend my clients to try it.

00;21;41;25 - 00;22;06;20
Ashley
Multiple different modalities. But when they work with me, it's really about understanding how they can become more conscious and aware. So I take them through self-limiting beliefs. How can we reframe our self-limiting beliefs? And then when they come up, if we're reframing them and we get into these stuck in these blocks, in these repeating cycles, what can we do to change them?

00;22;06;26 - 00;22;27;11
Ashley
That's not just, okay, I know that this is my cycle again, where the the talk therapy is great, but you end up just intellectualizing the problem. So we get to the root of it. We figure out what is that self-limiting belief, how can we reframe it, and then what can we do subconsciously so it doesn't continue showing up in our lives.

00;22;27;11 - 00;22;51;24
Ashley
And then you work through different cycles that come up. And for some women it's clearing a cycle. So they stop attracting unhealthy relationships. It's so they can stop procrastinating and get over imposter syndrome. So it's tapping into a lot of those different fears that we have things that keep coming up. But at its core, it's reprograming the subconscious.

00;22;51;24 - 00;23;21;17
Ashley
So it's a multiple different things. There's different techniques that I have my clients learn and implement. But at the we'll say the main focus that I have my clients, implement pretty consistently is the conscious awareness. And through that's through meditation, different techniques that I take them through, completely different from what I used to teach and coach. It's nothing like what I used to do, but it is what changed my life.

00;23;21;20 - 00;23;49;03
Ashley
And so I knew that even though I was comfortable in that space, it was what I knew. It no longer served me, and I couldn't facilitate to the best of my ability by limiting myself to that level of coaching. Not that not that there is anything wrong with with that. And I know that there are people who find so much benefit in just following that kind of program, but that wasn't where I could serve best.

00;23;49;06 - 00;24;13;19
Lisa
Yeah, I agree, if you don't look at this subconscious beliefs that are driving behaviors that are driving identity, not much changes like you know, so and even creating awareness like awareness, call it creating awareness is like mental masturbation. Like nothing really changes, nothing really. So you're going to have this great awareness. That's awesome. What do.

00;24;13;19 - 00;24;14;00
Ashley
I do and.

00;24;14;00 - 00;24;49;17
Lisa
Not do something with the awareness. Like what is the point? Right. It's like, what is the point? And that's that's the part where people have to take different actions and they have to really be committed to becoming that version of themselves, that there may be afraid to come. Because you know what a lot of people don't talk about with this work is the depth of grief that comes along with letting go of parts of yourself that have literally been there your whole life to protect you, to make you feel like you are safe, to make you feel like you belong, to make you feel like you are loved, like all of these things, all of

00;24;49;17 - 00;25;15;09
Lisa
these blocks and patterns that people are stuck in serve a purpose until they don't. And I don't know about your experience, but mine has been incredibly painful letting go of stuff because to sit with yourself, to see your patterns, to see the attachments that we have to those patterns. So even though right now I'm not competing, I don't know if I will or won't.

00;25;15;09 - 00;25;27;04
Lisa
I don't like closing any doors. I like I like having options. So we'll see what happens in the future. And I do it like I said, I do it from such a like neutral. I just like the sparkly bikini, really. And going on stage.

00;25;27;06 - 00;25;27;26
Ashley
It's so much.

00;25;28;00 - 00;25;40;27
Lisa
I'm not even that good at it. Right. Like, that's a funny thing. As soon as I walk on stage, I'm not like my coaches always on me about my posing. And she's like, you need to. I'm like, fuck it. Like I'm just going to go out there and have fun. Like, that's me, right?

00;25;40;28 - 00;25;44;12
Ashley
That's the point. But that's that's the best voice you do. Exactly.

00;25;44;12 - 00;26;07;10
Lisa
That's the point. But it doesn't make me competitive against the seasoned pros who are really. Anyways, where was I going with this? I was going someplace with it. But it's, you know, I don't want to close any doors on things, but right now, I'm in a season in my life where training, competing is not my priority. And I've shared about this on the podcast.

00;26;07;10 - 00;26;30;23
Lisa
And I know you get this when I am in a season of competing, it's like having another job. And I love it because all of that discipline, which I see as a real form of self-love and commitment, all of that translates into how I show up in my business, right? All of it. Which is also awesome. However, I am in a season right now of like, letting things go.

00;26;30;23 - 00;26;53;22
Lisa
A lot of stuff has changed in my life personally and professionally. This year I'm spending most of the year on a plane traveling, so having a consistent training schedule not possible, having consistent commitments around my training, not possible, tracking all my food, not doing it. I'm not going to be taken out my scale on the Camino. It's just not happening.

00;26;53;25 - 00;27;20;13
Lisa
So it's sinking into deeper levels of self trust, not making it mean anything. But man, have I bumped up hard against the parts of me that are like, but Lisa, your identity is that you are a committed person, that you are an integral person, that you are a disciplined person. And I'm having to redefine what those things mean to me, because it's the meaning that I've given to commitment, discipline, responsibility that can keep me stuck.

00;27;20;13 - 00;27;53;28
Lisa
And and this is something that I want all of our listeners to know is that we are meaning making machines. So even when we're looking at blocks, sometimes it's not about removing the block, it's just about redefining how we see it so it can work with us instead of working against us. So yeah, I'd love for you to share on how you redefine some of these athletic qualities of yourself, because I'm always going to see myself as an athlete, but a very different athlete right now as well.

00;27;53;28 - 00;28;12;25
Ashley
And it's because you're touching on the meaning behind it. Whatever meaning we give to something is what it is. It's like people will see numbers throughout the day to say they saw the angel numbers. Whatever that number is, is a meaning that you put on it. That's it. So there was actually a when you were talking about keeping safe.

00;28;12;28 - 00;28;35;27
Ashley
I went to a women's conference. Amy Porterfield was talking and her phrase was, what's keeping you safe is what's keeping you stuck? And if we create that meaning around what an athlete means, right? For us when we're not showing up in this elevated version or this elite, we have to be this elite athlete. We think that we're not showing up properly, but it's just a different season.

00;28;35;29 - 00;29;05;13
Ashley
I mean, I just wanted to chill. I just wanted a season where I wasn't going balls to the wall training constantly. My body's killing me, focusing 100% on this long list of things that I have to get done for what? To keep this identity of elite athlete. What does that serve? How does that serve me? And we have these different seasons, but we see ourselves in this light that we have to show up a certain way.

00;29;05;13 - 00;29;16;23
Ashley
And it's just recognizing that we have it's an ebb in a flow. And when we attach to anything that's a problem, right, that we have to be able to surrender to that.

00;29;17;00 - 00;29;38;14
Lisa
Yeah. When we attach to anything, any specific way of doing things. And, you know, a lot of athletes do really get attached to their schedule and routine and regular people do as well, because it provides a certain amount of security and certainty. When we've got this nice little, you know, routine happening. But as soon as you get to that, you get you get stuck.

00;29;38;14 - 00;29;42;01
Lisa
Because now, who are you outside of that routine?

00;29;42;04 - 00;30;04;24
Ashley
Absolutely. And our done our identity is going we're going to change. And we have to be willing to accept that. It's like I think about the athletes that have been in their sport and they retire, and so many of them go through that massive period of who am I? Because they have attached to that identity and they no longer see them.

00;30;04;24 - 00;30;26;25
Ashley
So how how are they supposed to see themselves after they gave their entire life to this sport? Okay, so now what? And some of them are able to move forward. Some of them become coaches, bless them. I could not coach on a soccer field because I was so sad that I couldn't be on the field playing it. All I did was stir up feelings of lack.

00;30;26;25 - 00;30;47;15
Ashley
I'm like, oh, I just want to be out there playing. But my knees are like, absolutely not, we're done. But I knew that for me, it wasn't healthy to move into that space, and that was essentially why I dove into competing is I wanted to recreate that feeling. But the joy of soccer was what I was really chasing.

00;30;47;17 - 00;31;10;28
Ashley
And of course, the challenge of getting out there and training consistently and really being an athlete, of course, that was enticing, but the joy that I had on that soccer field, nothing in the athletic space made me feel that way except soccer. And so I we were I was laughing because you were talking about how, you know, there's nothing wrong with it.

00;31;10;28 - 00;31;42;07
Ashley
We should be fully committed. Right. But I felt like there was something wrong, that I was behind the stage. And I'm kind of like, you know, oh, like whatever. You know, this isn't the I. I thought that there were so many women that really took it really, really seriously. And it's not that I didn't take it seriously. I was I trained so hard to track my macros in all of the things, but when I was there, I was like, I don't know, I shouldn't I be feeling differently about this?

00;31;42;07 - 00;32;03;03
Ashley
Like, shouldn't I have this fire in me of. And I just didn't I didn't have that. And I was searching for that and I don't. And that's honestly I think why when I really, really knew that it wasn't for me because I was like, I feel like the integrity piece, right? Because when I played soccer, I was so serious and it was just my life.

00;32;03;03 - 00;32;13;10
Ashley
And then when I competed, I didn't feel the same way. And then I felt bad. I'm like, this is starting to make me feel like almost ashamed that I don't have that same fire.

00;32;13;13 - 00;32;37;16
Lisa
It's such a different, it's such a different environment. And I, I did my best to share as much behind the scenes as I could with my audience. Right. Because I'm like, you guys will never believe this, right? Because is such a I guess it's such a like the pageantry of it, the lashes and the hair and the makeup and the makeup every day and the hair every day, and the tanning in the staff.

00;32;37;18 - 00;32;55;27
Lisa
But it was such a like I remember thinking like, man, like these girls are like, really serious about this. And not to knock those girls, like a lot of them are in fitness and this is how they're building their careers and stuff. But, you know, I run a business online. I have for decades now, I consider myself a successful entrepreneur.

00;32;55;27 - 00;33;19;24
Lisa
I've got a family like I have so much shit beyond that world. And that world to me was like my pinky finger. Like it just didn't matter. It was for fun. But so many of those girls were like, so serious about it. And I could just never kind of click with that. So the first year that I competed, I did it with a, you know, a group of girls I kind of like found some of my people and made them.

00;33;20;00 - 00;33;36;20
Lisa
I basically made them my friends so we could go through this together. We all went to Vegas together. It was fun. But when I went back in 2023, I was really kind of solo. The the one girl that I was there with, she was still competing as an amateur. I was a pro, so I was up with the pros.

00;33;36;20 - 00;33;54;12
Lisa
I didn't really know anybody and it was a very isolating, not fun experience. So I loved going on a stage. Love that part. But the rest of it I was like, I could do without this because it was really like the camaraderie of doing it as a part of a kind of a team like my own made team.

00;33;54;12 - 00;34;07;16
Lisa
And of course I had my coaches and team, but I'd made my own little posse. That is what made it fun. But just doing it to do it without that, it was really missing so much for me.

00;34;07;19 - 00;34;32;26
Ashley
Well, and it's it's a very solo sport as is. So when you're going to the shows and you're staying in the hotel, you're by yourself. Maybe your husband or someone is with you, but they're not really getting it right. You want that level of understanding you haven't been. I don't wanna say you haven't been eating, but, you know, the diet, it's it's hard and you're exhausted and you got to keep your feet up.

00;34;32;26 - 00;34;56;01
Ashley
And there's just a level related ability. So when you take away the community piece, you're like, why am I doing this? The first two shows that I did, it should have been an indicator that this was not my path. The first two shows that I did, my best friend ended up fainting, and the both of the experiences were slightly traumatic, but it was the first show that I ever did.

00;34;56;08 - 00;35;22;18
Ashley
She fainted the night before and she couldn't get on stage the next day, so I was behind. I was behind the stage alone, and my coach wasn't there because we were in Vegas and it was such a different experience. I haven't really been as much of a fan of the NBC shows, because I didn't feel the same level of community that I did when we were in our federation, so I didn't have anyone behind backstage with me.

00;35;22;18 - 00;35;40;16
Ashley
And I'm thinking to myself, okay, so, what I'm what what do I go out there and I should I, I didn't know what I was doing, let's be real. But I loved how I looked, right? This is a first time that I really felt confident in my body. I was the person that never wanted to go to the beach.

00;35;40;16 - 00;36;00;15
Ashley
I didn't even want to be in a bikini. And here I was, flattening myself out on the stage. So I was so proud of myself for that. But I was backstage alone for the first two shows that I did. Actually, no, the second one, no, no second one. I think she was there, but she was competing in a different division, so I wasn't really by her the whole time.

00;36;00;18 - 00;36;18;01
Ashley
And none of the girls were really talking to me. I mean, it might have been because my energy was kind of off, because I was maybe in my head, who knows? But it was such a different experience. And then when I competed in the different federation, it I had that community aspect and it was such a different experience.

00;36;18;04 - 00;36;38;27
Ashley
It means, oh, and I had to touch on this. I'm a soccer player. I want my girls, I want my team. It's like you have your own team of cheerleaders with you all the time. We're going to the hotel room and you're all coming to our room. We're going to watch a show. And you know, I always wanted to recreate that.

00;36;39;00 - 00;36;47;15
Ashley
And so with competing, unless you have that group, you don't really have that aspect of team. It's a it's a solo sport.

00;36;47;18 - 00;36;54;01
Lisa
When you were creating that team backstage, did you actually feel like you fit in and belong? No.

00;36;54;04 - 00;37;14;14
Ashley
No. But what I will say, though, is that I always felt I felt that way almost all of my life and came to find out, I was a victim of sexual abuse. So I think that that was just a story, right? That that I carried with me. And it was something that I hid for years of my life.

00;37;14;14 - 00;37;33;18
Ashley
I didn't even uncover it until I was 26. And it was something that my my mind just knew that I wasn't ready to process it yet. And so it was just buried very, very deep. And there was just this thought of, they don't like me anywhere I would go. I remember in high school that my friends would invite me to a party and I said, no, no, they don't like me.

00;37;33;18 - 00;37;52;10
Ashley
They just say that they do. And they're like, what are you talking about? Like, everyone loves you. Why are you thinking that? And it was just this. It was ingrained in my subconscious for so long because I just felt like there was something wrong, like I was broken. There was a part of me that was unlovable, so I had already felt that way.

00;37;52;10 - 00;38;02;11
Ashley
So I think even if you brought the right people around me, I would still have moments where I would think to myself, I don't think that they like me, but it was because I didn't like me.

00;38;02;11 - 00;38;29;16
Lisa
Or that feeling of separation. How much did that sexual abuse impact your relationship with your body on an unconscious level? Because I'm assuming now you've brought it to the consciousness, right? But the reason I ask this, and you can share as much as you do or don't want, is so many women don't understand that the beliefs in the stories that they're telling themselves about their bodies are coming from something that was given to them, whether it was something their mom was talking about, whether it was sexual abuse, whether it was the kid on the playground.

00;38;29;16 - 00;38;49;14
Lisa
But we formulate these, these truths about ourselves, and then we go out and live those truths only to discover they're not true. And I can imagine that sexual abuse would very, very deeply impact you feel how you felt in your body and in your skin.

00;38;49;16 - 00;39;12;12
Ashley
Well, what I uncovered as I started diving into my I did a lot of shadow work, and I used to shy away from anything that was going to shine a light on something that I deemed to be negative. But the beautiful part of shadow work is there are sometimes beautiful traits that we hide in the shadow because we were told you shouldn't be bossy if you're assertive, right?

00;39;12;12 - 00;39;35;18
Ashley
So the more I dove into my shadow work, the more I started to recognize that this part of me that I thought was unlovable, right? That part that just wanted to be accepted well with abuse is. And for me, it was in childhood. So you can't discern what's right or wrong. You just know what feels good and what is attention.

00;39;35;20 - 00;40;00;07
Ashley
So I think I correlated my body as the attention. So then it started to make sense. Oh, so no wonder I ended up in competing to make my body look a certain way, because then I'll be validated. Then I'm going to get the attention. That's another reason why I said I will never step on stage in a bikini again, for what it meant for me from a very, very young age.

00;40;00;09 - 00;40;27;11
Ashley
Now we say it's whatever meaning we give to it, right? So there could be subconscious programing there. They could say, oh, I'll get on stage in a bikini and have it mean something differently. But I think I knew that it was too fine of a line to play. Right? Because it is a very deep rooted core trauma that has taken years for me to work through, and it's like peeling the layers of an onion.

00;40;27;11 - 00;40;55;20
Ashley
I always use the analogy. You say it's like that one closet that has so much in it and you're like, I don't even ready to open the door because everything is just going to come a falling out, right? It's it's just pack that away over there. So once I started pulling out the layers of everything that I just piled on top of it over years, I started to really understand why I ended up on that path and why I started thinking to myself, I am so far out of alignment with who I am.

00;40;55;20 - 00;41;10;17
Ashley
Well, because I was searching for that validation, that attention through something that came from this place of trauma, this place of I need to show up this way because if I show up that way, then I'm going to get that attention and I'm finally going to feel like I'm good.

00;41;10;17 - 00;41;31;03
Lisa
Enough, I feel good, I feel good in my body because that's what you tied it to. So I love that you've gone from this sense of like false confidence, because often that's what's competing does right? This this false confidence into a really embodied confidence of who you are and who you're here to serve and how you want to show up in the world.

00;41;31;06 - 00;41;51;22
Lisa
So I want to pivot a little bit, and I want to talk about food for a minute, because I think this is important. Yes. And trusting ourselves because, again, we get attached to a lot of women nowadays. Macros is like really popular. And I'm here for macros if you can do it and stay in a neutral place about it.

00;41;51;22 - 00;42;17;19
Lisa
But if it becomes something that you can't not, not do, it's a problem. Just like training, I can't begin to tell you how many women I talked to who the thought of them taking a day off of training is like they'd rather chew their own arm off. You know, my coach used to say to me that I was one of her few athletes that when I took a dealer week, took a dealer week, like I didn't train for a whole week because I know nothing bad is going to happen.

00;42;17;19 - 00;42;43;25
Lisa
So the reason I want to talk about food and training in this way is there's this underlying element that I don't think a lot of people are conscious of, and that's why I want to talk about I want it if you're listening, I want you to get conscious to this is how much are you using those things to avoid feeling how you would feel if you didn't train, if you didn't track your macros because it can't becomes a source of control and mood altering.

00;42;43;27 - 00;43;05;27
Lisa
And are you willing to trust yourself if you don't train for a week? Or if you didn't count macros for a day? Or would that bring up feelings of anxiety or, you know, whatever it may be? So, you know, like I said, I love the fact that women are getting on this train, that at any age they can really recreate their body and discover their health.

00;43;05;27 - 00;43;35;27
Lisa
And I think so many women do that, and they get used to the routine of doing that, not realizing that there does come a point where you want to explore your attachment to those things, because if you've laid a solid foundation, which you and I have, I'm sure you can go like weeks and weeks just intuitive eating and be okay and know when you need to like tweak something or change something or add something like, I know, I know, there's, you know, and even with training.

00;43;35;27 - 00;44;00;16
Lisa
So I would love for you to talk about where you see that showing up with your clients, because this is something that more and more recently I've really been noticing this, this level of commitment that it's like there's no room for deviation. And these are just they are athletes now because they've adopted that athletic mindset. But there's no room for flexibility within that.

00;44;00;18 - 00;44;28;00
Ashley
That was partially why it was difficult for me to continue coaching in that space, because I found it hard for myself to find the balance. Right. I went so I was so strict, tracking everything all the time. It was such a it became such a chore. And while yes, there's mindset work around the advantage and we get to do this and we're athletes and this is how we need to show up.

00;44;28;02 - 00;44;45;21
Ashley
But there was something off with me doing that. And that's not to say that, you know, I don't. I go back to tracking from time to time when I want to tighten things up. You know how that goes. But I've built up this level of I know intuitively when I need to peel back and how I'm feeling in my body.

00;44;45;21 - 00;45;03;18
Ashley
And a lot of clients have no idea how to do that. But I think the missing piece and what why I started to shift in my coaching is, why are you doing it? Why are you really doing it? Because when we have consultation calls and we say we want to get to the why of the purpose that we want to get to the why?

00;45;03;18 - 00;45;12;05
Ashley
Because if we have a strong enough why, we'll be able to make better choices. No, because I have clients I had like.

00;45;12;07 - 00;45;12;22
Lisa
Deep.

00;45;12;22 - 00;45;36;14
Ashley
Deep, deep rooted, purposeful whys, yet they still couldn't stay on track with that super strict macro tracking protocol. So why I want to commit to healing work, and why we're doing it in the first place, and focus on what it means for us. What does it mean for you to make better choices? Does it mean that you have more energy?

00;45;36;14 - 00;45;58;09
Ashley
Does it mean that you show up better? With your in your relationship? Does it mean that you show up better as the parent? You know, if you're relying on the food and the tracking to make you feel good, it's never going to work. It's never you have to feel good without that. It's the it's the detachment to that, to wanting them.

00;45;58;11 - 00;46;23;11
Ashley
But the process of of having a client understand that because, I mean, think about it. You have women who have spent how many years of their lives struggling with not wanting to lose weight. So detaching from that, it's not going to happen overnight. Right? So, I think for me, the the biggest piece was letting go of what tracking macros meant.

00;46;23;13 - 00;46;42;10
Ashley
What it track was tracking macros mean for me. It meant that if I did, if I was the good girl and I tracked everything and I put everything in, I did a great job. And if I didn't, I was bad. So detaching from this is just a thing that we're doing to feel better. And you just have to that has to be on a loop, right?

00;46;42;10 - 00;47;04;02
Ashley
So if it's something that you recognize midway through the day, you're like, okay, I need to track my macros. Why is it I does it does it make you feel good? Yes. Okay, well track them, but if you don't, where is the. Where's the line between. This doesn't make me bad if I don't track the macros.

00;47;04;04 - 00;47;22;18
Lisa
This is such a good conversation. Because if people want to find the right way, like what's the right way to do this? And there is no right way because every single person is going to have their own experience. So for some women, starting to track their macros gives them an immense amount of freedom that they didn't have before.

00;47;22;21 - 00;47;50;27
Lisa
And over time, though, it might start to feel like it's taking away their freedom. And it's always looking at what is working for me right now. And do I have the courage to let go of this and just see what it feels like on the other side? And that's it, right? But again, like if you are so attached to something that the thought of not doing it for a week stresses you out, that's a sure sign that you should just, like, take your hands off the wheel and let go and see what see what actually happens.

00;47;50;29 - 00;48;12;18
Lisa
Because, you know, when we're always attaching ourselves to certain ways of tracking or doing things, we are still disconnecting from our own innate trust in ourselves, right? Because all of these things, if you want to get into feeling better in your body and loving yourself more, it all comes down to do you trust yourself to take care of yourself in that way?

00;48;12;21 - 00;48;33;06
Lisa
And that's always changing. The trust that I had in myself when my kids were four is different than the trust that I have in myself now that my kids are in their 20s. Right? Like, and we always need to be checking in with those things. So I love what you said there about, you know, is asking yourself better questions like, what is causing me to feel like I have to track my macros today?

00;48;33;10 - 00;48;39;12
Lisa
Or what is causing me to not want to track my macros today, or go to the gym, or not go to the gym. There's a dude and.

00;48;39;12 - 00;48;57;05
Ashley
There's nothing wrong with it and there's nothing wrong with it. We we try that. We have to. I have to my coach that I have to do these things. Well, if you had an honest conversation with your coach and you started saying, hey, this is becoming. So I feel like I'm becoming numb to this process and I'm hating it.

00;48;57;12 - 00;49;10;11
Ashley
Well, then we get to reassess what's actually going to work for us, because if tracking is going to cause it, that level of stress and you're doing it just for the sake of doing it because you have to, you're not going to do it long term. You're gonna be able to sustain it.

00;49;10;17 - 00;49;28;10
Lisa
Because the truth is, we don't have to do anything in this world. Well, maybe pay our taxes, but even then, you don't have to pay your taxes. You'll just go to jail, right? There's nothing that we have to do. But we tell ourselves that story all the time. And most of the time we get into it because we've learned that punishing ourselves is how we move ourselves forward.

00;49;28;13 - 00;49;51;02
Lisa
Right? Being hard on ourselves is how we move ourselves forward. So actually, you are now showing up in the world doing retreats and see these all these beautiful retreats. I'm hosting my first retreat this year as well. Very excited about it. I would love for you to talk about what you're up to, where people can find you. You know the type of clients that you actually love, love working with.

00;49;51;04 - 00;50;14;05
Ashley
Well, what's interesting is the retreat has also transformed. As I transformed, it used to be a photoshoot retreat where I would take my clients who went through my training and nutrition program, and we went to this exotic location to take pictures and our fitness model got up again. So far from what it is now, right? It totally evolved into something completely different.

00;50;14;08 - 00;50;37;15
Ashley
Now it is all about healing and connection. Still you still have photoshoot empowerment photoshoot, but it is very different from what it used to be. It's not about really. The photoshoot is just about stepping into this new version of yourself. It's about shedding old layers and stepping into that version of yourself and celebrating that. But the I have the international is in Tulum.

00;50;37;15 - 00;50;52;07
Ashley
That is end of May, and then I have a local one coming up on April 20th. But the international ones we have May end of May is to lume, Bali is middle of August and then Santorini is in October.

00;50;52;09 - 00;51;09;22
Lisa
Amazing! I'm so excited for all the things ahead of you, and it's such an example of when you have the courage to let go, the doors that can open up for you. And you know, and this is the thing about attachment, when we stay attached to things, we will literally block ourselves from receiving the other good things that want to roll in.

00;51;09;22 - 00;51;16;15
Lisa
But they just they can't they can't reach us because we're like, no, I have to do it this way. This is who I am.

00;51;16;18 - 00;51;38;11
Ashley
Surrender. Eckhart Tolle said this, and he said, surrender is an uncompromising yes to the present moment, and that is accepting what is in front of you at this moment in time and recognizing that you we're here to evolve, we're here to experience, and we have to be willing to let go of those attachments.

00;51;38;13 - 00;51;49;05
Lisa
Your percent couldn't agree more. Well, I'm so glad you took time out of your day to have this conversation with me. I hope more people find your work. Where can people find you? On Instagram, Facebook?

00;51;49;07 - 00;52;16;02
Ashley
The new Instagram name without fitness. I crack up every time. It was a really long screen name too. It was like actually sort of lifestyle and fitness. It was so long. The my Instagram is Ashley. Ashley, sorrow, sorrow. And then the retreat page that I have is embrace the change retreat Scone.

00;52;16;05 - 00;52;32;15
Lisa
Amazing. We will get all of that in the show notes so that people can easily find you. So check out the show notes if you want to follow Ashley or consider going to one of her retreats. So thank you so much for being on Ashley. So anything you want to leave the listeners with?

00;52;32;17 - 00;52;33;24
Ashley
Surrender.

00;52;33;26 - 00;52;34;21
Lisa
Yeah.

00;52;34;24 - 00;52;50;13
Ashley
There's a higher power at play. We cannot control everything in this life. I just looked at the time, it said 333 and I was like, okay, yeah, surrender. Don't be don't try to control everything. We can't.

00;52;50;16 - 00;52;52;24
Lisa
No, we have control over nothing.

00;52;52;26 - 00;52;52;29
Ashley
Like.

00;52;53;05 - 00;53;12;06
Lisa
Sand. None of my people like hearing that, right? Because they're all A-type personalities. They're like, no, I can control it. No, you can be responsible for things in your life, but you actually have no control over anything. People don't like that message and it's the truth. So we all, we all get our medicine when we need to. So thank you so much, Ashley, for coming on.

00;53;12;06 - 00;53;13;29
Lisa
It's just been an absolute pleasure.

00;53;14;01 - 00;53;15;02
Ashley
Thank you so much for having me.